Suggestions on 'smart' wiring for new house

Forums › Home Theatre (including HTPC and EPG Collector) › Suggestions on "smart" wiring for new house

Brat

40 posts

Geek
+1 received by user: 1

#56562 17-Jan-2010 11:15

In the process of building myself a house.

Thnking of wiring this up in the following fashion :

All cables star-wired from central patchpanel. All drops will have draw-wires with conduits used in insulated walls.

It appears that FTTH is availabe from Telecom in Christchurch so will provide for this with the 3 x Cat5 cables (inside conduit) they want from my patchpanel to the ETP.

Aerial : 3 x RG6 for UHF/Sky/Freeview. (Can anyone tell me the benefits of Quadshield in a domestic situation?)

Bedroom computer locations :
    4 x Cat6 (3 for Network/phone/IR and 1 spare - maybe another Cat6 to allow 2-cable video via balun - prefer fibre though)
    1 x Fibre patch lead left unconnected in wall since I can't find any plates that let me terminate them. (Futureproofing).
    1 x HDMI for outbound video.
    1 x RG6 for RF.

All TV locations (Bedroom/Lounge/Living, etc):
    1 x RG6 for RF.
    1 x Fibre patch lead left unconnected in wall since I can't find any plates that let me terminate them. (Futureproofing).
    1 x HDMI for inbound video.
    2 x Cat6 for Ethernet/IR. (maybe another 2 x Cat6 for 2-cable video via balun - prefer fibre though)

Lounge Entertainment centre :
    8 x Cat6 (2 for Network/phone/Wii/PS3/Mediacentre and 2 for IR/Other). (maybe more for 2-cable video via baluns?)
    2 x RG6 (1 for inbound RF, 1 for outbound RF).
    2 x HDMI (1 for inbound and 1 for outbound).
    2 x Fibre patch lead left unconnected in wall since I can't find any plates that let me terminate them. (Futureproofing).

Not sure about what fibre patch leads to use - OMC3 LC (multimode) or another connector type. Not many commercial products out there using fibre for me to get an idea of what standards are emerging.

Speaker cables from Sources directly to their associated wallplates or ceiling speakers using in-wall wire. (RG59 or RG6 for subwoofers).

Not sure about multiroom audio yet - some places just run Cat5, others use shielded 4core and yet others run coax.

Same with (future) control distribution - some outfits use Cat5; others use their own cables.
Isolation gets interesting when you start connecting control to light switches, etc. although Clipsal (amongst others) now use RF-controlled light switches which gets rid of that problem).
Anyway, that's what the drawwires/conduit is for. :-)

I just want to wire things up so I can choose what system I want to install once the mortgage gets down low enough to install them!
You know; flexibility. ;-)

Any comments / suggestions?

viperguy

25 posts

Geek

#291340 19-Jan-2010 23:37

ive always dreamed of simplifying it all right down and just going with a house-wide PC system running something like Mediaportal. So you have a server in the comms cupboard, client PC's located at each monitor position which stream whatever video content you like from the server (DVD library, Freeview recordings etc), as well as local Blu-ray/DVD playback capabilities.

Then all you need are some audio feeds from the PC's plugged into a multi-zone amplifier for your distributed audio. Which could just as easily be HDMI cables feeding a receiver(s) for surround sound duties.

Jaxson

8172 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1332

Trusted

#291434 20-Jan-2010 11:30

I totally agree viperguy. I'm fairly close to giving a HTPC a go, as it seems to now be able to do everything via windows 7 media player. Working with those HD audio tracks via hdmi on bluray seem to be the only stumbling block left....

Sometimes I stuggle to find the real need for extensive automation systems in domestic applications given the extra cost and real world gains.

There a sticky thread at the top of this forum explaining this. Cyril is the guy to talk to if you are going down this path Brat.

cyril7

9073 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2499

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#291446 20-Jan-2010 11:58

Hi, I personally would not bother with fibre within the house. You need 3xRG6 runs to all main TV sites as in a few years time you can be assured Sky will only be doing PVRs, minor TV sites (bedrooms etc) then 1 or possibly two are recommended, I normally just do 1 except maybe the master bonkitorium.

Just a couple of points I note first

Cheers
Cyril

Brat

40 posts

Geek
+1 received by user: 1

#291479 20-Jan-2010 13:21

Viperguy/Jaxson; I agree however they're not there yet. Mediaportal, MythTV, MediaCenter are on the way but just don't quite cut it yet. I have tried most of them at some point or another. :-) They will get there though, I'm sure.

Cyril; I think we're on the same page, just the other side of the leaf. :-)

When I see products like this out there (http://www.owlink.com/dll.htm) and (http://www.netstreams.com/rescategory.aspx?ID=2) then I see the future of multimedia clearly in the IP space too. The problem is that it's still in the future. (Those products (and even current mediaserver gear) being too bleeding edge to be cost-effective). :-)

I guess your RF plan is to have an RG6 feed in for Satellite, an RG6 inbound for TV and then a return RG6 for distribution from each main room which you would then feed to the other rooms? Or is that three inbound feeds for main areas allowing for two LNB's plus TV? I assume you use a splitter for these feeds rather than multiplexing/demultiplexing. That correct?

After looking at full-HD HDMI distribution, there really are only two solutions that aren't wonky (by that I mean, buy and intall your product, hold your tongue right and hope it all works out); convert all multimedia to fibre in proprietary (currently) formats (crestron, owlink, etc) or convert it to IP (netstreams, mediaservers, etc.) running via Cat6 or possibly fibre in the future. Anything else appears to be a black art with balancing cable skew if using baluns or regenerating/equalising if you want to put prefabricated HDMI cables down the walls.

The difference between us is that with fibre to the home coming to us in the "future", I also foresee that this fibre will continue to the device at some point. It will cut down on so much clutter and provide immense flexibility. Having a Cat6 (for backward compatibility), an F connector (maybe 3 if you take FreeView/Sky/other into account) and one fibre (faceplate connectors for these will come, I'm sure) is MUCH tidier than the plethora of Cat6, HDMI, Component and F connectors that appear to be needed now. Even with the new HDMI1.4 and DisplayPort standards, combining everything (except possibly the RF) on multimode fibre makes so much more sense. (I am ignoring idiocy like this product - http://www.dtrovision.com/USERMANUAL/HDX.pdf - which requires 4 fibre plus Cat6).

A lot can be done on Cat5 now (see Netstreams link above) but there is a limit to how much info can flow across a Gb switch. Netstreams require VLANs and QoS to do what they're doing now. For 3D and to carry Ethernet data as well as multimedia, will most likely mean 10Gb (hence the Cat6 - it's only a few more dollars a run anyway) or fibre.

That's why I'm seriously looking at running a single SC fibre to each TV/computer as well as the Cat6 and RG6 for current compatibility. Still can't find any decent (Wife Acceptance Factor-decent) passthrough wall faceplates but they'll come now that companies are dipping their toes into the fibre consumer space.

Anyway, that explains my rationale - please feel free to poke holes or even dismantle it completely! :-)

cyril7

9073 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2499

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#291498 20-Jan-2010 13:47

Hi, you require two RG6 feeds for a Sky PVR (MySky) this is now a mandatory requirement by Sky. You can then have antenna on another. I said 3 runs, although 4 is what I more commonly run to the main AV center so you can have an RF return, otherwise I just diplex the return back to the central coax hub on one of the sat feeds.

I still dont see the real need for fibre within the home, a GigE switch should be able to provide non blocked traffic from any port to port, ie a 16port switch should have a min 8Gig fabric, which means there should be no issues. If you are feeding multiple media clients from a common server then I suggest that server is going to be the bottle neck not the switch or network. cat6 under 39m should support 10Gig according to all reports I have seen.

Dont forget that the FTTH service is only a 100Mb/s service, nothing faster. GPON runs 2.4Gb/s downstream and 1.2Gb/s up, and this is split amongst 32users or more likely 64, but all the ONTs that Telecom have (and others) only support fast ethernet on the subscribers copper side.

Also 3D does not use that much more bandwidth compared to 2D. 2D HD that is available to domestic users only trundles along in the 13-16Mb/s at best, so a typical home network with 3 or 5 users each pulling their own HD feeds through a 100Mb/s fast ethernet circuit are not going to break the bank, let alone what you can do on GigE.

But anyway, its your home, so if fibre you want then go for it ,but I would bypass OM3 and go straight for single mode, by the time you might find any fibre devices you want to use no longer support multimode.

Cheers
Cyril

richms

29098 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 10208

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#291674 20-Jan-2010 23:01

Fiber is usable for HDMI - after seeing how many problems crop up with HDMI over cat-5 it may not be a bad idea to chuck it in. When I was pricing it to go to the shed here, the cable was nothing, it was getting someone out with a machine to terminate it that was the pricy part. I ended up ebaying some 90m patch cables and coiling the excess up...

Richard rich.ms

Dyson

Shop now for Dyson appliances (affiliate link).

cyril7

9073 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2499

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#291700 21-Jan-2010 07:53

You can purchase preterminated OM1, 3 or OS to any length you want, within reason.

Cyril

Brat

40 posts

Geek
+1 received by user: 1

#291759 21-Jan-2010 09:54

Commercial TV won't go past 1080i over RF as there's just too much data to distribute and it's not worth their while. So Gb Ethernet is more than fine for that. Cable may reach 1080p60 at some point...particularly if they use fibre.

I want to distribute Blu-Ray, not just commercial TV. The fibre will be used predominantly for HDMI although it could be utilised for almost anything with the right Wave division multiplexers.

Preterminated SCSC OM3 (50u multimode) Fibre patch leads are what I'm going to throw in for HDMI. (a quick google on companies using fibre, told me that most terminate with SC connectors). If not, converting patch leads are available, anyway. As you say richms, other solutions are too dodgy to bother with.

Multimode fibre is not going away anytime soon, Cyril. Both the new 40G and 100G standards in development support it, however only by massive parallelisation. These will support only OM3 or the new OM4 cables so no point buying OM1 or OM2. No point buying the new OM4 for that matter either as at 100Gb, you will get an extra 25m over the 100m range of OM3. Can't see me using 100m in a house! :-)

OS (single mode) cable itself is dirt cheap however the terminating electronics gear makes it more than 10 times the total cost of OM3 and electronics! With the current 100G fibre standard under development, laying 20 OM3 fibres in parallel (10 each way for full-duplex) with electronics is still _10_ times cheaper than laying a single OS2 and terminating it!

cyril7

9073 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2499

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#291763 21-Jan-2010 10:00

Hey Brett, I am only making my opinion known, as I said earlier its your house do as you want.

And yes I am aware of the technology and whats on the horizon, I install network solutions, copper, fibre and wireless for a living.

Cheers
Cyril

Brat

40 posts

Geek
+1 received by user: 1

#291929 21-Jan-2010 14:52

Hehe, I know Cyril. I'm just commenting on your opinion of bypassing OM3 and going to OS which just doesn't make sense in a domestic environment.

I'm in commercial IT and am involved in datacentre cabling, etc. (we USE OS in places) however have not done anything in the domestic space before now.

What brand of wall faceplates/inserts do you recommend? HPM, Amdex, Keystone, or Krone, etc? Wife likes look of Amdex for home use (I use Krone for work) but I don't know anything about domestic ones. I don't want the inserts popping out of the plate or being a pain to terminate.

I'm used to proper wallmount or floorstanding 19" rack enclosures - what do you recommend for a consumer enclosure, considering I'm likely to need a 19" (or a few 10") patch panels?

richms

29098 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 10208

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#291945 21-Jan-2010 15:39

Amdex are a ripoff of clipsal modules, I would look to clipsal since they have slimmer plates than the amdex ones, and you can use the same modules in them.

Keystone and krone dont have matching AC outlets so are a nono straight away IMO..

Richard rich.ms

Apple TV

Stream your favourite shows now on Apple TV (affiliate link).

cyril7

9073 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2499

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#291957 21-Jan-2010 16:08

Personally I prefer PDL, but its not to everyones taste, however they don't pop out and you can get either PDL's adpators that work with generic keystones, or Krone ones that work better with Krone's mech's. Otherwise I would go with Clipsal, their newer Saturn range is very smart.

I would stay with 19" especially considering level of kit you are talking about. a 9u in the garage sounds good, or take it out to 12u if you want to put servers in it etc.

Cheers
Cyril