Speaker wiring recommendations

Forums › Home Theatre (including HTPC and EPG Collector) › Speaker wiring recommendations

Rollux

362 posts

Ultimate Geek

#64080 7-Jul-2010 16:19

Hi All

To all the knowledgable audiophiles out there...

I am sorting out my Home theatre setup this weekend. I will be doing a fresh install of Win7 on my HTPC (listed below)
It is everything - Bluray player, music player, tv etc.
It is currently connected to my 12 month old Pioneer AV Receiver (can't remember model #, is THX certified, was about $2500 in sale) via a single HDMI cable.
Using at the moment some speakers from an old Sony Monsta system until I can get some Wharfedale 9 series or Image 400 (!!) series speakers to replace them.

Now I will be re-ripping all my CD's to Apple lossless (as my wife likes iTunes and her ipod) for better quality. However, my speakers and the noodle-like wiring to them will not be helping - currently crackles and sparkles with volume or "complicated" bits of music/movies.

Now I know cabling and connections are important, but I know nothing about them and don't want to throw excessive money down the drain. As you can see by my choices of components, I like things that are good without being OTT. I am slightly deaf in one ear from shooting, so I doubt I'll hear the last 1% difference between brands/types etc.

What do you recommend for what I want to acheive, and how much should I spend? I need to know things like;
Cable lengths - is being equal important? Guage cable required? Construction, terminations etc.
Cheers
Dan

Lounge:
WIN7 HOME x64 HTPC - E6420 2.13Ghz - 4Gb 800MHZ PATRIOT RAM - ASUS HD5670 1GB
ASUS P5B-VM MOBO - LG BLU-RAY DRIVE - BG3595 TUNER - 1.5TB STORAGE
PANASONIC 42" FULL HD PLASMA - PIONEER VSX1019AHK RECEIVER - WHARFDALE DIAMOND 10 SPEAKERS

Man Cave:
XBOX 360 MODERN WARFARE 2 EDITION - PANASONIC 37" PLASMA - SONY MONSTA 5.1 SURROUND SYSTEM

oxnsox

1923 posts

Uber Geek

#348798 7-Jul-2010 16:29

Unless you can actually hear the difference between cables you shouldn't pay for it.... and then it's up to you to pay what you think that difference is worth.

But for speaker cables any twin (pair) of 1.5mm or larger should be fine. Go for a tinned copper if you can because the exposed end you connect to the speakers and amp won't tarnish/oxidise/corrode (which can be the source of later noise).

For longer runs use a thicker cable, and never join shorter cables together (potential noise maker) to get a longer one... simply get a longer cable.

Jaxson

8042 posts

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#348800 7-Jul-2010 16:34

Rollux: currently crackles and sparkles with volume or "complicated" bits of music/movies.

I'd be looking to track down what's causing this prior to buying new speakers. Could be crap speakers, amplifier or htpc audio output settings/levels. Picking speakers, but would want to be sure. Personally doubt it's the cable causing this.

Rollux

362 posts

Ultimate Geek

#348811 7-Jul-2010 17:30

This I'm sure is a speaker issue as it seems to come from the RF speaker only. The speakers will get replaced regardless as their tonal balance is non existent (think only bass and top of treble)

samwooff

219 posts

Master Geek

#348918 8-Jul-2010 01:43

Speaker wire is all about resistance, which increases the longer your cable run and decreases the greater the cross sectional area. Lower resistance is what you're after by the way.
Speaker wire is generally measured by the american wiring grade (AWG), a smaller number means a thicker cable on this scale. Assuming this is going to a surround setup in the average size living room, you're probably going to want about 16awg for the fronts and centre and 14 for the rears, this will change depending on the impedance of the speakers and how far away they are. The table on this page is pretty easy to understand even if it is in feet http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/speaker-cable-gauge
You shouldn't have to pay more than $5/m unless you want to put banana plugs on the end or something, which can help keep the ends from fraying everywhere and look nicer.

Oh and +1 for image speakers lol

Desktop: i7 920, GTX 275, asus P6T, antec 1200, 6gb ram, 1tb spinpoint f1, 1tb spinpoint f3, Logitech Z2300, Zero DAC, Shure SRH440
Laptop: Toshiba satellite, T5300, Go 7300
Home Theatre: 32" loewe CRT, Harmon kardon amp, dvd player, image 418 speakers, rega planar 25 turntable :)

Rollux

362 posts

Ultimate Geek

#348967 8-Jul-2010 09:17

Thanks for the info

I have seen some cables advertised for about $40-$70/metre and thought there was no way I was paying that! Obviously for people with more money than sense

Wife wants the rimu Image speakers because "they match the furniture". I like them but don't think I want to spend $5k just on speakers.
{sigh}

Image it will no doubt be....

langi27

675 posts

Ultimate Geek

#349008 8-Jul-2010 10:07

Rollux: Cable lengths - is being equal important?

So long as your amp can self calibrate, the lengths of cables to each speaker shouldn't matter either, once properly calibrated the amp takes into account the additional loss and adds in delay's to the shortest length, this should in theory have all channels arrive at your ears at exactly the same time.

If the cable length is too high or the resistance path to great (which is caused by small cross sectional area, poor termination, or really long length) your amp should give you errors whiles calibrating.

Check out Jaycar for 30 meter reels of cable they seem to give a pretty good price and range of sizes

http://www.jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID=WB1713&CATID=22&form=CAT&SUBCATID=248

buzzy

217 posts

Master Geek

#349121 8-Jul-2010 15:43

Differing cable lengths make sod all difference. You're dealing with signals heading down the cable at near the speed of light. Each additional meter of cable adds a delay of one three-hundred-millionth of a second (1/300,000,000) to the sound reaching the speakers.

Below is a (long) webpage about the behaviour and characteristics of different wire. Essentially, don't pay $$$ for speaker wire.

The factors that determine your wire needs are the resistance of the speakers and length of the wire. The page has a chart of speaker resistance and length with the resulting wire gauges:

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#wiretable

For 15m speaker cables in my house, and 8Ohm speakers, I used 16AWG wire. JB Hi-Fi were selling AudioQuest 16AWG cable for $3 per meter, so it cost me about $90 for 30 meters of cable. It works absolutely fine.

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buzzy

217 posts

Master Geek

#349122 8-Jul-2010 15:44

...of course, if you want *decent* cables, there's this option: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=34&topicid=36115&page_no=2#226998

richms

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Lifetime subscriber

#349150 8-Jul-2010 17:12

More important than the wire is the plugs on the end. Speakers will have some vibration on the back no matter how well braced, and just poking the wire in the terminal will work loose.

I am not a fan of most cheap banana plugs since the spring is just floating on the part that you connect to, but there are some better ones available that you tighten up. Again there is stupid money been charged for what is just a lump of machined brass churned out of a machine in china because there is a fancy name on the side of it. Crimp on is the way to go but you usually have to get them made for that, rather than being able to do it yourself.

Richard rich.ms

Rollux

362 posts

Ultimate Geek

#349196 8-Jul-2010 19:02

Thanks as always for the info guys (and gals??)

And Buzzy, do you think you could get me a discount on those "decent" cables? After all, I'd need 3 sets, and maybe another set for my xbox setup...LOL

So all in all - a decent guage cable with proper crimped/soldered connections at each end is all one really needs.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Dan

Regs

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Snowflake

#349320 8-Jul-2010 23:27

where do you live, and how many meters do you need? i've got some 315/0.12mm (12AWG I think) OFC cable left over on what was a 100m roll. I'd have to see how many meters are left...

Sales Engineer
Snowflake
www.snowflake.com

about.me/nzregs
Twitter: @nzregs

Rollux

362 posts

Ultimate Geek

#349382 9-Jul-2010 10:10

Regs: where do you live, and how many meters do you need? i've got some 315/0.12mm (12AWG I think) OFC cable left over on what was a 100m roll. I'd have to see how many meters are left...

I'm in Blenheim. would need (2x2m, 1x1m, 1x10m, 1x8m) 33m in total I think. Quite happy to buy the rest off you and I can organise postage? Cheers Regs
PM me if you want to work out the details

Regs

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Snowflake

#351650 14-Jul-2010 22:55

Rollux:
Regs: where do you live, and how many meters do you need? i've got some 315/0.12mm (12AWG I think) OFC cable left over on what was a 100m roll. I'd have to see how many meters are left...

I'm in Blenheim. would need (2x2m, 1x1m, 1x10m, 1x8m) 33m in total I think. Quite happy to buy the rest off you and I can organise postage? Cheers Regs
PM me if you want to work out the details

it looks like i have somewhere in between 40 and 45 metres left, pictures of roll here, and the wire on its own weighs about 6.2KG:

Sales Engineer
Snowflake
www.snowflake.com

about.me/nzregs
Twitter: @nzregs

samwooff

219 posts

Master Geek

#351911 15-Jul-2010 14:39

That is some sexy wire, I'd be keen if he isn't lol.