Does 'cut off' mean the same as Crossover?..

Forums › Home Theatre (including HTPC and EPG Collector) › Does 'cut off' mean the same as Crossover?..

elldizzle

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Master Geek

#69854 14-Oct-2010 08:55

So im just trying to further dial in my setup. Using the Audyssey settings as a base. So have been reading a lot about Sub-woofers and Crossover frequencies. But a lot of sites have been referring me to the Sub-woofer's crossover Dial. But my Sub-woofer doesn't have a crossover Dial it has a "cut-off" dial. This goes from 40hz to 150hz. I just want to clarify that these are the same?.

Just for reference Audyssey has set my crossover to 150hz. My sub is rated at 40hz to 150hz and my sat speakers are rated at 125hz - 20khz. And my centre is rated at 100hz - 30khz.
I'm using the Onkyo TX-SR-507 and the Jamo A402-HCS5.

But this may all change as im picking up a set of Wharfedale Diamond 9.5's Tomorrow. And these are rated from as low as 30hz at -6db.

Dunnersfella

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#391643 14-Oct-2010 09:01

Basically, the setup mic looks like it has setup your sub to be working hard to compensate for your satellite speakers. Basically, the satellite's won't give particularly good bottom end performance, so the sub is essentially filling the frequency gap.
This will change quite markedly with your new Wharfdale's.

And... um... I use the phrase crossover, not cut off. What brand sub is it?

Jaxson

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#391659 14-Oct-2010 09:36

Yeah dial on the sub physically controls the highest frequency the sub will even try to output.

There's also a sub crossover setting in the Onkyo receiver that does the same thing.

Often it's a good idea to set the sub dial quite high first and let the audessy setup decide where to cut it off. If you don't like the results you can always tweak it and redo the setup again with the new settings.

It's also good to use the sub dial to ensure the sub doesn't try to reproduce frequencies that it resonates at, or buzzes etc etc. If there's a point that just plain sounds horrible then you can set the physical dial to ensure the sub doesn't even try to make that sound, even if the audessy thinks it should.

Any reference to phase instead of frequency crossover/cut off will switch the push/pull behaviour of the speaker. You use this to ensure the sub in in sync with the other speakers in the room, especially where there is a point where both the main speakers and the subwoofer are producing similar frequency sounds.

Hope some of the above makes sense and helps?!

raab

262 posts

Ultimate Geek
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#391662 14-Oct-2010 09:41

Interesting, I thought Audessey generally sets the crossover to 80hz, -12db. It advises you to set the crossover on the sub to the highest and the amp will do the rest

elldizzle

91 posts

Master Geek

#391683 14-Oct-2010 10:38

The manual that came with my Sub tells me to set the Crossover or cut off as it refers it to. At 150hz. But im assuming this is far to high for a Subwoofer. But then Audyssey is setting it at 150hz. Ive tried the crossover at 80hz but bass seems reduced.

Most people have said to turn the Subwoofers crossover all the way up and let the receiver control the crossover?. Ill do a bit more digging tonight into the settings as there may be a separate setting for the speakers crossovers and the Subwoofers crossover. If this is so I may have a quick tweak with them or may run the audyssey again.

Thanks alot for the input it can be a bit of a minefield for the uninformed.
Plus this will also all change when the Wharfeys arrive!!!..
Just for mention the sub is a Jamo A400.

bazzer

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#391705 14-Oct-2010 11:19

elldizzle: Most people have said to turn the Subwoofers crossover all the way up and let the receiver control the crossover?. Ill do a bit more digging tonight into the settings as there may be a separate setting for the speakers crossovers and the Subwoofers crossover. If this is so I may have a quick tweak with them or may run the audyssey again.

I would agree with this. Your receiver won't even send anything to the sub that is above its crossover setting so changing the dial on your sub shouldn't do anything. If you're tweaking the setting on the sub, sholdn't you be doing this on the receiver instead?

Currently, anything over 150Hz goes to your mains, under 150Hz goes to the sub. If you tweak the sub (to 80Hz for instance) then you'll have a gap from 80-150Hz. If your sub can't handle over 80Hz and your mains don't go low enough then that's your problem and you can't do much about it without replacing your speakers.

elldizzle

91 posts

Master Geek

#391779 14-Oct-2010 12:44

Yeah thanks thats what I thought. I have a bit of a hole in my range. Thats what Im hoping the wharfedales will help out with.
But im not tweaking the settings in the subwoofer that fixed and always has been. I was referring to the receiver settings. I think for my setup right now 120hz would be an appropriate crossover. Thanks for all the help guys!. Will post my findings tonight and tommorow after ive had a mess with the wharfedales!.

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bazzer

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#391788 14-Oct-2010 12:52

elldizzle: Yeah thanks thats what I thought. I have a bit of a hole in my range. Thats what Im hoping the wharfedales will help out with.
But im not tweaking the settings in the subwoofer that fixed and always has been. I was referring to the receiver settings. I think for my setup right now 120hz would be an appropriate crossover. Thanks for all the help guys!. Will post my findings tonight and tommorow after ive had a mess with the wharfedales!.

Sorry, I misunderstood. I've found the Audyssey stuff to be pretty good, so if they think your sub will do a better job up to 150Hz than your satellites will do down to 120Hz I'd trust it. Still, if you think it sounds better that's the main thing.

To be honest, I wouldn't worry about it. You're getting new speakers soon and I'm sure that will make a big difference.

Nety

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#391815 14-Oct-2010 14:22

You should set the cutover to 100Hz or below. Anything above 100Hz becomes directional in other words the listener can tell where the sound is coming from.
If you can get a sound meter then you can tune the crossover otherwise do it though the amp only (so sub set to its full range). IMHO concerning the speakers range -6db is noticeable. If there is a graph of the speakers range your should treat the point where it drops 3db as the lowest they can go.

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elldizzle

91 posts

Master Geek

#391974 14-Oct-2010 21:15

Thanks for all the input guys. I feel im a lot better informed now. And a lot more capable at building my system from now on...
Will post results soon of how I get on. Oh and my impression of the wharfedales!!

illicit

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#391993 14-Oct-2010 21:55

I can almost 100% guarantee you that you will get better bass from the new Wharfedales than your current sub.

Try it - disconnect sub, run full range to new speakers

Jaxson

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#392141 15-Oct-2010 10:38

Yeah a lot of those satellite sets come with a larger bass speaker in a box, rather than a subwoofer, despite any names given to the unit. With regards to being able to reproduce the very low frequency content, these units are not very capable and are more aimed at filling the obvious hole below the capabilities of the small satellite units.

One could argue that this is not a very good way to go, given that the higher areas of the low frequency sounds do start to get directional...
But anyhow, looking at the gear you have I would just let the audessy calibration do it's job and not get too hung up on numbers. If you add a dedicated subwoofer then try some of the approaches above for crossover settings etc.

My opinion is that music itself can sound very good without a subwoofer if you have good full range speakers. You should notice a huge improvement with the wharfedales.

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elldizzle

91 posts

Master Geek

#392201 15-Oct-2010 13:10

Have just picked up the wharfedales but due to a large assignment due monday will not get much time to mess around.
I originally purchased the Jamo 5.1 sub sat system with the Onkyo as a starter 5.1 setup. I always had the intention of slowly upgrading the system.
I've also found I have become a lot more picky about my system and have started to notice more flaws and holes in the sound the more I listen....But I guess thats the whole "Home theatre bug"...It can always sound better..lol

Any suggestions on my next upgrade?...Centre, sub?, Receiver?...

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elldizzle

91 posts

Master Geek

#392340 15-Oct-2010 17:59

Just a quick update for anyone who cares...lol.
So got them all hooked up and ran Audyssey. It has set my fronts (the wharfedales) to small and set the crossover to 70hz.. Obviously cause they have a lower frequency response than the previous satellite fronts.. But I don't understand why its set them to small?..

ilovemusic

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#392953 17-Oct-2010 21:33

Because Audyssey is DUMB !

This is good advice;

illicit: I can almost 100% guarantee you that you will get better bass from the new Wharfedales than your current sub.

Try it - disconnect sub, run full range to new speakers

And do a manual setup.

elldizzle

91 posts

Master Geek

#392971 17-Oct-2010 22:38

Had to move house this weekend.... Not setup properly but will definitely give the a go!..