3D or true HD that is the question

Forums › Home Theatre (including HTPC and EPG Collector) › 3D or true HD that is the question

Jimmy22

377 posts

Ultimate Geek

#76897 8-Feb-2011 10:20

Hello Everyone,

I have just got a 3D telly, Samsung LED C7000 series and a free 3D bluray player which has had me “wowing” for the last few days but there is a niggly issue I hope we can fix.

I have a Denon AVR3808 and I can't pass through the 3D signal to the TV AND have TrueHD at the same time. I can have true HD no problem or 3D but not both.

Fixing a direct optical input to the amp and a 1.4 cable to the TV works fine BUT the audio signal is downgraded to DTS (as the samsung bluray manual says it will be)

The TV doesn’t appear to output any better than PCM from the optical unless I use the built in HD tuner so I can’t throw the sound back once the 1.4 signal has made it to the telly . I have tried to "ARC" the hdmi back but silence of the worst kind results :( .

I know DTS is not to be sniffed at and im lucky already but it seems a waste to let the full functions slip away if i can help it.

AVRA100 amp is the obvious but very costly solution.

Any cleaver ideas to get the sound extracted?

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#436711 8-Feb-2011 10:30

Thanks for posting this up here, I wasn't aware of that situation being able to occur.

Any sound back from the TV is likely to be 2 channel only (if you feed the TV first and then hope to feed back to the receiver from it.) Likewise optical will downscale like you say.

Do Denon have anything to say about this matter?
And is there any wording in the AVR manual about this type of situation?

Jimmy22

377 posts

Ultimate Geek

#436714 8-Feb-2011 10:42

Thanks for the reply,

The amp is from 08 with HDMI 1.3 inputs so i don’t think Denon had dreamed of this situation at the time so i haven’t expected much from them. The manual mentions sound input/output results which is exactly right but it doesn’t mention hdmi 1.4 or 3D . e.g. I have got my DVD player working fine via HDMI as the output is 2D and i expect any 2D Blueray may be ok as well.
I have seen an official response somewhere saying HDMI 1.4 is a hardware change and i cant download a software upgrade to fix it from Denon.

Dunnersfella

4086 posts

Uber Geek

#436717 8-Feb-2011 10:51

Unfortunately you are correct, the only way to enjoy the optimal 3D experience (sound and picture) is to upgrade to a 3D capable amplifier.
The most annoying part? Denon AVR391's are capable of 3D playback... and they cost very, very little!

NzBeagle

961 posts

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#436722 8-Feb-2011 11:00

I'm guessing the Bluray player doesn't have 8 channel analogue output and onboard decoding? Depending on which model you have, if it has these outputs it could be an option, sound through to the amp's Ext. IN connections.

bazzer

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#436724 8-Feb-2011 11:05

I thought he was saying that his AVR doesn't pass through 3D. So he can either go:
Blu-ray ─HDMI─> AVR ─HDMI─> TV (TrueHD, no 3D); or
Blu-ray ─HDMI─> TV (3D)
└─Optical─> AVR (DTS)

This is expected behaviour for such an "old" AVR, I'd have thought.

Edit: Oops! A day late and a dollar short...

Jimmy22

377 posts

Ultimate Geek

#436726 8-Feb-2011 11:10

Ill check for the EIGHT outputs , I didn’t know you could get True HD sound through any form of analogue outputs , I kind of hope your pulling my leg here ?!

Eeek the AVR391 weighs half what my amp does I’d lose 2 channels of sound, its half the RMS watts and 3x the THD. Plus , id probably cry (manly tears) ;)

But yeah it would solve this issue no question and it’s a good solution to pass through the 3D for interim models. I guess my unit missed the boat on that one.

langi27

675 posts

Ultimate Geek

#436731 8-Feb-2011 11:18

Couple of points here you cannot send TrueHD over S/PDIF (optical).

Have you set the digital output of the blu-ray player to Bitstream (Audiophile)?

Your amp maybe just too old to pull out the TrueHD bitstream form the 3D bitstream, and while the 3D is working its just passing it through.

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Jimmy22

377 posts

Ultimate Geek

#436734 8-Feb-2011 11:28

Couple of points here you cannot send TrueHD over S/PDIF (optical).

** CHECK :)

Have you set the digital output of the blu-ray player to Bitstream (Audiophile)?

*** Yes and i get TRUE HD sound, played through the speakers, and displayed on the amp display

Your amp maybe just too old to pull out the TrueHD bitstream form the 3D bitstream, and while the 3D is working its just passing it through.

** Currently the 3D wont pass through and sound is all i get from HDMI input from the BLURAY to the AMP but I’m working on it , futile as it may be , hehe.

Jaxson

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#436736 8-Feb-2011 11:29

Jimmy22: Ill check for the EIGHT outputs , I didn’t know you could get True HD sound through any form of analogue outputs , I kind of hope your pulling my leg here ?!

Eeek the AVR391 weighs half what my amp does I’d lose 2 channels of sound, its half the RMS watts and 3x the THD. Plus , id probably cry (manly tears) ;)

Nope Dunnersfella is spot on, (good thinking chap). The HD audio is 'zipped up' and something needs to extract it with the appropriate decoder. This can either be in the player or the receiver. If the player does it then you get an option of analogue outs on some models.

I suspect your bluray player wont have the analogue outs but it's definitely worth a look. If you could configure that to work on the amp then possibly a change of bluray player could be a cheap alternative. hdmi out to tv giving 3D and analogue out to receiver giving hd audio.

Jimmy22

377 posts

Ultimate Geek

#436743 8-Feb-2011 11:42

BDC 5900 is the model
and no luck on even 6 audio outs...

NzBeagle

961 posts

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#436754 8-Feb-2011 11:54

I'm using the Panasonic BD85, it has the analogue outputs and pretty nice picture but no 3d support. But as mentioned, it could be worth a look, to purchase a 3d player with the analogue output as this would be cheaper than buying an amp comparable to yours that can do 3d.

Dunnersfella

4086 posts

Uber Geek

#436768 8-Feb-2011 12:22

Well then, this COULD be your best option for the buck...

http://www.panasonic.co.nz/at-home/entertainment/blu-ray-products/blu-ray-players-recorders/dmp-bdt3...

Twin HDMI out's (one is a HDMI 1.4, the other HDMI 1.3) as well as analogue outs.

numfarr

329 posts

Ultimate Geek

#436771 8-Feb-2011 12:30

You can get cheap HDMI splitters that say they support 3D and HD audio, e.g.
http://cgi.ebay.com/2-WAY-HD-hub-switch-box-port-1080p-3D-HDMI-SPLITTER-/120662641913

Jimmy22

377 posts

Ultimate Geek

#436810 8-Feb-2011 13:26

numfarr: You can get cheap HDMI splitters that say they support 3D and HD audio, e.g.
http://cgi.ebay.com/2-WAY-HD-hub-switch-box-port-1080p-3D-HDMI-SPLITTER-/120662641913

From what i have seen those splitters require all items on the output side to be identical e.g. two identical screens.

I dont think they can communicate both ways if the split outputs are vastly different

That 3D Blueray player is the shizzle, I dont have any doubts it would do the job. Everything i have in my system so far has been between 33% and 50 % discounted so ill keep an eye out for the unit to fit that part of my criteria too :)

Dunnersfella

4086 posts

Uber Geek

#436848 8-Feb-2011 15:25

You could travel back in time and buy a 50" 3D Panasonic plasma when it came out with the 3D BluRay player...
No?

Hmmm - time to wait until the new model comes out and grab one of the 'old' ones on special then!

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