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Topic # 87432 28-Jul-2011 19:26
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Hi everyone,

I have had some "professionals" install additional UHF outlets into another room of the house. They "split" the signal into the other room, ran cabling under the house into the other room, and then...

They left about 1-2m of cabling coming directly out of the floor (through a little plastic box thingy at the join between the floor and wall), which had an F connector on the end of it.

Is that standard??

Next question is that I queried this and they came and cut off the extra 1-2m of cabling and brought it back "flush" with the box thing on the floor.

However they were insistent that they would use F connectors on that box because the old style (I dunno what it's called but all my equipment uses it including TVs and videos) is prone to problems in the long term.

They made me a cable to go from F connector to the "old" connector so that I could plug my equipment into it.

Is this a standard install these days or is something not right here?

Thanks and apologies if I got any terminology wrong.

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  Reply # 499112 28-Jul-2011 20:23
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F-Connectors are becoming the standard type of connectors being used on pretty much all new aerial installations, and definitely the standard on satellite installations. They can be a hassle to "DIY" install due to the fact that you have to have the right crimping tool, but they are much easier to work with afterwards.

As for running the cable out of the floor, it's not the tidiest of installations, but it works just fine. A lot of sky installations I have seen have the cable just coming out of the floor, and it's usually easier to do it that way. Most of the time the cable coming out of the floor is behind a tv cabinet anyway, so not a big deal.

You could opt for a flush plate mounted wall connector, but the only real benefit would be aesthetics.

BTW, the "old style" connectors are called Belling-Lee connectors. ;)

Hope that helps.

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  Reply # 499113 28-Jul-2011 20:24
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Hi, is there some problem with the performance of all this, or is it just a concern about F connectors as opposed to BellingLee/PAL connectors. The latter are not as robust as F, but by the standards are the connector to use for UHF terrestrial services.

I normally install F connectors everywhere, but supply F to BellingLee fly leads to connect TVs/STBs etc.

Personally I dont think you have an issue, just use F-PAL adaptors where needed.

Cyril



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  Reply # 499129 28-Jul-2011 21:06
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Thanks for the replies. I was just concerned that the F connector now installed isn't "compatible" with my AV equipment which all uses Belling-Lee PAL leads.

I have been led to believe that the F connectors are more robust and you are confirming this so I'm happy with the final solution. The biggest issue I have however is that more and more equipment these days doesn't have RF bypass!

For example my TiVo and Play TV both have an RF input but no RF output! Which is very annoying and another reason I thought it would be handy to have "compatible" connectors everywhere.

Further question that you might be able to answer Cyril7 - regarding CAT5e as a DIY retro-install into an old wooden house where I have reasonable access to 80% of the underfloor. I was wondering if it would be as easy as the RG6 installation was - ie. drill hole in wooden floor, drop CAT5e, bring it up in another room via a drilled hole

I don't have the expertise to run the CAT5e through the walls and install an elegant faceplate in the wall - is there any way to do it as I've described under the floor without it looking horrific?

Thanks :)

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  Reply # 499236 29-Jul-2011 08:58
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Hi, you should be drilling the hole under the floor through both the floor and bottom plate of internal (an external) walls to bring the cables up within the wall cavity. Then carefully cut a square hole in the gib to place a flush box (or easy fit box) and your done.

Cat5e like RG6 just needs to be held off the ground and kept dry, clip it to floor joists but not so to crimp it too tight.

Cyril



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  Reply # 499289 29-Jul-2011 10:55
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Thanks Cyril,

I'm not particularly clever with these things - from what I saw drilling through the floor directly is something that I'm possibly able to do with my skill level but the wall is not going to be possible.

At the moment at the edge of the floor I have something like this for my aerial socket:


What I want to know is can I get anything like that which I can put at the edge of the floor (in the right angle between the floor and the wall) which instead has an RJ45 female socket on it?

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  Reply # 499398 29-Jul-2011 13:12
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Hi yes there is they are called FMT surface mount sockets, you can get singles and duals, there is a link below, note the two cheaper ones in the middle are not data rated just voice, as you can see one is infact an RJ12, the data rated ones have IDC wiring internals.

http://www.cablesdirect.co.nz/catalog/search?quickfind_needle=fmt


Cheers
Cyril



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  Reply # 499405 29-Jul-2011 13:21
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Thanks Cyril. What's the price difference between Cat5e vs Cat6? And would you recommend Cat6?

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  Reply # 499420 29-Jul-2011 13:52
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Hi, you dont often see surface mount Cat6 sockets, they are available but not here. In general for inhome links of 20-25m (which I presume you are talking about) then cat5e is going to give you all the performance you need. Cost wise, cable and Keystone connectors are around 1.5x that of cat5e, not a big increase.

If you are doing just 4-5 runs around your house then I would stick with cat5e, just follow the basic rules, dont put tight bends (25mm bend radius minimum) or mechanical stress on the cable, not let it twist during installation, keep it 300mm from power where possible, and 50mm where not possible to achieve 300mm seperation. Keep it 300mm or ideally 1m away from fluro light fittings, switch mode supplies or large motor machines (ie heatpumps etc).

Keep the unsheathing of the cable to a minimum when terminating, ideally less than 3-5mm from the socket body, and try not untwist the wires when terminating, ie keep them twisted right up to the IDC, with practice this is easily possible.

Cyril



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  Reply # 499628 29-Jul-2011 23:25
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Thanks Cyril!

I am still undecided about whether to do this project. I keep chickening out because of access issues under the house.

I may be able to get some help to install proper wall plates for the job.

Am I right in saying that regardless of whether my cable from the underfloor terminates in an RJ45 male, an RJ45 keystone, or a wall plate with a female RJ45 socket, that in all scenarios I still use the SAME kind of cable?

And what's "crossover" - does that refer to the kind of Cat5e cable or just the way it is terminated? I don't want to install the cable only to find I bought the wrong stuff!!

Finally, how difficult is it to wire an RJ45 wall plate given that I've never done it before and have no tools? Is it perhaps better for me to leave the ends of the cable that I DIY clip to the underfloor and pay someone to complete the terminations for me?



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  Reply # 500013 31-Jul-2011 15:16
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Dammit I went under the house and part of the RG6 installation runs along the GROUND. That's not right is it? :/

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  Reply # 500023 31-Jul-2011 16:06
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No the RG6 shouldn't be on the ground and is pretty bad for a professional job.  To fix it just clip the rg6 to the floor joists.


Regarding the wall plates, they aren't difficult to do.  A good punchdown tool makes life easier, I starting using a cheapo plastic one and after the first couple bought a proper one from mastertrade and this made the job much easier.   

From underneath the house running the cable in the wall isn't much more difficult than running it through the floor, you just have to drill a bit more to get through the bottom plate.  Then you just need a stanley knife to cut a hole in the gib for the outlet, and you will get a much better looking finish.






  



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  Reply # 500027 31-Jul-2011 16:10
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How hard is it to wire the wall plate if like me you have no knowledge? And how big approximately is the hole that you need to cut in the gib?

What do I need a punch down tool for?

Thanks

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  Reply # 500033 31-Jul-2011 16:25
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The hole needs to be big enough to fit a flush box through.  I don't know the exact size and I haven't got one open at the moment but maybe 100x60mm? 


The punchdown tool is to terminate the cat5 into the RJ45 module.  This video will give you an idea.  Its terminating a patch panel, but it's bascially the same at the wall end as well.  There might be better video's around,  this was just the first one that came up on google.

  
 
   

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  Reply # 500037 31-Jul-2011 16:43
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It may be better for you to run the cables and pay someone to install the connections. Any good installer will check the cables, once installed, to ensure they're terminated correctly and reliably.

Cost wise it shouldn't be too much more getting someone in than if you were to buy a punch-down tool (required to make the connection between the cat-5 cable and the socket) and get the use of a tester for such a 1 off job.
Running the cables and drilling the holes yourself will save you $$.



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  Reply # 500040 31-Jul-2011 17:01
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I'm strongly considering this option thanks.

In that case do I buy just any Cat5e or do I need to look for something specific? A friend has access to a charge account so cabling may not cost too much.

Only thing is I'm not that confident drilling and cutting holes in the gib for the plates. Would that be an expensive add-on to the job?

Problem for me cost wise is that wireless is a perfectly acceptable solution right now but my underfloor insulation is currently in the middle of being replaced so it seemed like a sensible time to get everything done if not going to be too expensive.

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