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Topic # 225902 11-Dec-2017 04:17
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Last year I had some grave problems with my MacBook Pro and I’ve been meaning to share my experience for some time.  I should have posted this earlier, and it may be that few people are still lumped with this problem, if people are still having this problem I hope my experience gives others hope. 

 

I bought a MacBook Pro 15.4” in May 2011. It was highly spec’d as I planned to have it for many years. High res display top graphics card etc. 4 years later I upped it to 16GB RAM and put in a 512GB SSD and put the 750HDD in the CD slot. It was performing extremely well (not taking into faults mentioned below). It was well looked after, and also used for both work and normal life and came with me everywhere. 

 

The display, WiFi card, the battery, and the trackpad had problems before this meltdown.  Apple had paid for all these repairs, although the battery expanding issue required some firm words before they agreed to come to the party. 

 

Anyway, as common with this model, the motherboard / graphics failed in 2016.  When the model was new, there were big problems even months after its release. Normally the failures typically happened much earlier than I experienced it.  The weirdest thing about my experience with Apple, is that even though my exact model at the time was still covered by a recall “Apple repair programme” that clearly related to my exact unit, Apple representatives said that when using my serial number, no information was available to them and therefore it was not covered by the repair programme. 

 

As a commercial lawyer I have had some experience being difficult and was able to have some, what I thought was, productive conversations with Apple and I thought I had got them to agree to replace the Mac, at 5 and a half years after purchase. However, at the latest moment, after 4 or 5 long conversations, the last guy more or less told me to go jump. They insisted at 5 years no one has any consumer rights, I was told that more than once by their representative. 

 

As I explained to them I would do, I made a claim in our brilliant disputes tribunal. I did some research, put together an application that day -the application was rushed and bit of a mess.  Within a day or two of the application I had a tribunal hearing date - a fortnight after lodging my claim.  As I’m living in Europe at the moment, I had to get up at 3am for the hearing which I attended via Skype. No one from Apple appeared. Attached is a PDF of the tribunal order.  In short I was awarded $2,000 for Apple’s breaches of New Zealand consumer law relating to quality and durability.

 

I would encourage anyone else with similar problems, even with some good years under the belt, to consider taking a tribunal claim against Apple as their products are marketed as being superior quality and they’re priced accordingly.  To me, my recent experiences is Apple is now often intentionally ignoring their consumer law rights relying on the end consumer accepting something less than what they are entitled to. 


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  Reply # 1916323 11-Dec-2017 04:25
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It seems I am never able to upload a file using the uploader.  The PDF tribunal order can be found here if you're interested.   https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8qjbihvqk8i26aj/AABqdjSF0qSgs8ZtW5L9xTuZa?dl=0

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1916331 11-Dec-2017 07:02
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Thank you VERY much for sharing this.  I am pleasantly surprised you had this level of success after such a duration.





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  Reply # 1916332 11-Dec-2017 07:06
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Thanks for sharing this. It certainly sets an interesting precident for others to look at and follow.

 


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  Reply # 1916341 11-Dec-2017 07:37
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As an aasp we still get these models in quite often, with the failed graphics card issue.
I always wondered if the owners would have a claim to make against Apple, since the repair program that they ran had ended.
I see it has been over a year since your case however, so I wonder how successful others would be now, if they did the same, with that model MacBook?




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  Reply # 1916353 11-Dec-2017 08:19
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How long did it take apple to settle the 2k after your hearing?


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  Reply # 1916355 11-Dec-2017 08:26
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Has Apple paid up?

 

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Ex JohnR VodafoneNZ 17 years 4 days

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  Reply # 1916357 11-Dec-2017 08:27
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Also from me.. Thanks for sharing.

 

Glad you had such a positive outcome.

 

 

 

My 2011 Macbook pro also died at the end of last year, I called Ubertec in Auckland, not really expecting much but they repaired it under the program.

 

They were great to deal with I have to say. It is a shame however that it will happen again. Certainly a premium priced product. Don't know if I can bring myself to get another one if they continue to have these issues AND attitude towards their customers while other manufactures are beginning to come out with products challenging Apple in every way.

 

 

 

Defiantly appreciate your effort to let consumers know what they are rightly entitled to.


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  Reply # 1916359 11-Dec-2017 08:38
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TBH you have a 2011 model laptop in 2017, Apple considers hardware obsolete after 5 years so no wonder they told you to go away. 

 

 

 

Electrical goods are so complex these days and I think consumer law have got it wrong by giving consumers the suggestion they should work forever, if you buy a car and 6 years later suffers mechanical failure tuff you foot the bill, how are electronics any different?

 

 

 

If you haven't been paid your compensation yet good luck with that, Apple have much more expensive lawyers that can keep appealing the decision.

 

 

 

Were your upgrades installed by yourself or an authorised support agent as I'm pretty sure having a 2nd HDD isn't officially supported and you might find thats were it comes undone.


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  Reply # 1916361 11-Dec-2017 08:42
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BTR:

 

if you buy a car and 6 years later suffers mechanical failure tuff you foot the bill, how are electronics any different?

 

 

Some car manufactures offer a 10 year warranty like Mitsubishi

 

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  Reply # 1916453 11-Dec-2017 10:27
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thanks for the response all. Would like to see if anyone else had made or will make a claim. Apple paid within a week of the order.

I think it pays to forget about warranty and consider what the law says. Ie it is fit for purpose and of an acceptable quality. Which is well summarised in the order - namely that something should be reasonably usable without the occurrence of major problems for more than four years. (At least in relation to an expensive MBP). Of course - a cheap $200 tablet, perhaps one would expect it may be built to a standard lower and therefore its’ acceptable quality and being fit for purpose would be in relation to its price, build, and expectations of a reasonable consumer.

In the hearing, I spoke about the marketing of Apple’s superior quality in 2011 as a factor in the decision of buying an expensive Apple product and I have always felt that is relevant and why I ended up making a claim.

@BTR
I do not think you’re right using your comparison with vehicle consumer law. For example, in 2016 A friend of mine bought a 2011 Ford Mondeo with a PowerShift transmission. I believe that meant the transmission is a dual clutch, but I’m not sure. I helped her go through the process of motor vehicle disputes. The 5 year old car, with 120,000km on the clock, that she bought second hand had problems (that were common with the PowerShift transmission). No warranty. The tribunal ordered that the dealer, because opportunity to repair was already given by my friend, had to purchase the car back from my friend. She got 100% of her money back and then bought a Hyundai.

Also, many years ago my parents with a 7 year old BMW had a similar problem which ended up costing over $5,000 (it was very strange issue which ended up being found to be something wrong within one of the the xenon light’s sensors) and BMW ended up being responsible outside any warranty. We got that result outside of the tribunal but probably only because we were going to stick to our guns. More recently we had the same experience with a Discovery 4 that had an electronic fault where Land Rover covered the cost of repairs after several letters even though it was outside of the warranty.

Regardless of it being a car or electronics, or appliance, if it expensive and sold as something that should last for some years, I think that law should provide a remedy if something falls short. Sure Apple or Ford or BMW or which ever company may consider it redundant and superseded technology, nonetheless the consumer should still be able to have some expectation of durability and longevity, even if the technology is continually changing.

Re the upgrades - yes I completed the work myself. I know manufacturers often say you will void the warranty by completing work yourself, but that doesn’t necessarily mean the law does too.

BTR

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  Reply # 1916667 11-Dec-2017 13:14
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Most people use their computers more than they use their cars. If person  A bought their laptop in 2011 and uses it an average of 10 hours a day and Person B bought their laptop at the same time but only uses it 1 hour a day over the duration of 5 years the laptop for person A has had a much harder life. This is where the law is unfair

 

Being your laptop was a high spec laptop I would assume that you fit into the category of a heavy user therefore I would think after 6 years you have had your moneys worth of out it.

 

 

 

In regard to Apple's replacement program yes its not uncommon for machines of the same model to be excluded from a program given the fact it may not have been in one of the affected batches. I have previously worked for Apple service providers so have a good understanding of this. These faults are usually caused by bad capacitors or other components and because Apple sources these from multiple vendors (to ensure a steady supply) not every machine is affected.

 

If you were certain you unit had the same issue I would have taken it to a service provider and put pressure on them to have the logic board replaced.

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1916703 11-Dec-2017 13:29
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BTR:

 

TBH you have a 2011 model laptop in 2017, Apple considers hardware obsolete after 5 years so no wonder they told you to go away. 
Electrical goods are so complex these days and I think consumer law have got it wrong by giving consumers the suggestion they should work forever,...

 

 

I'd agree .
If really pushed, and manufacturers had to warranty pretty much everything for 5-10 years , there can be only 1 outcome.
Prices would have to significantly increase to cover potential long term issues .
Or we will have parallel importers closing shop after 5 years then re-opening as a new company .
most consumer items are a race to the lowest price , so we should expect the consequences for that

From my experience working in IT, there is generally a complete disregard for the CGA by manufacturers, importers & retailers.
There has to be a bit of balance here, things need to be covered with zero fuss for more than 1 year, but need to be realistic about
expected life .

 

What happens when repairs are expected to last 5-10 years ?
That will put the last few specialist repair shops (doing component level on boards) out of business
It could also spell the end for all repairs in general .


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  Reply # 1916753 11-Dec-2017 14:14
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  Reply # 1937440 11-Jan-2018 23:49
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Well, it appears the tide is a bit against my view of what we should expect from consumer items.

I’ll make my response quick not to bore you but...

-I was not a heavy user actually. I would say medium. I enjoy photography and work remotely with the computer, but during all the years of ownership I was working full time and on average the laptop would have been used only a few hours during the week week, of course at times more, but I also had an iPad 3, and then later an iPad Air which I used more frequently that the MacBook.

-A parallel importer would be at risk that’s true, although that is a fact of business and something they factor into their operations I suppose but (from memory - don’t quote me) a consumer can take action against the manufacturer rather than the importer, which is especially useful if the retailer has set up a phoenix company or gone out of business, so I don’t think it is necessarily the retailer who must take responsibility in certain circumstances.

-I would say that I was at the very end of the time that one would get a successful claim. I was not sure if it was worth taking, and I do not think I would bother if the issue had of happened now instead of Sept ‘16.

Cheers

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  Reply # 1937443 12-Jan-2018 00:20
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FYI Apple have just recently extended the consumer law coverage, on certain components in Macs, from two to three years.
No idea which components that’s for though sorry.
We’ll slowly get an idea over time as we process repairs, and see what’s covered and what isn’t.




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