Is Spark screwing with my file downloads?

Forums › Spark New Zealand (including Skinny and BigPipe) › Is Spark screwing with my file downloads?

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#1170228 6-Nov-2014 17:53

Demeter:
n4:
Demeter:
n4: I'm not saying it is happening in this specific case, but you would be naive to think it couldn't be done or isn't happening elsewhere. Slowing down non-time critical sessions (eg file downloads) to allow better service for time critical sessions (eg voice, video) is a sensible way to manage network congestion - even if only temporarily.

Like this.

Are you referring to the traffic management policy which Spark are totally upfront about?

ETA - sorry, reading the above line, it sounds sarcastic and wasn't meant to be.

I'm referring to the fact that anyone who thinks traffic management (on whatever basis) is too resource intensive to be implemented needs to wake up and smell the coffee.

Oh, I see what you mean. I don't think that was exacly what chevrolux was implying though. I think it's more the assumption that ISP's are capable of scrubbing data at file level to pick/choose which exact packets to drop. If you want to split hairs, yep, technically it is totally possible but the resources needed for this type of granular control are just mindbogglingly massive.

No doubt a 2TB portable harddrive was 'mindbogglingly massive' in times past. But things change. Scrubbing data at byte level is completely practical - but still takes time and resources such that you would only do it for good reason. However scrubbing data based on (eg) which site you are on, or which file name you download, is trivial and within the capability of any traffic management system.

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Talkiet

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#1170234 6-Nov-2014 18:12

n4:
chevrolux: Yes Spark are watching your every move and singling out specific downloads if they don't suit their current marketting strategy.

.... see how ridiculous that sounds. Could you even imagine the resource that would

I'm not saying it is happening in this specific case, but you would be naive to think it couldn't be done or isn't happening elsewhere. Slowing down non-time critical sessions (eg file downloads) to allow better service for time critical sessions (eg voice, video) is a sensible way to manage network congestion - even if only temporarily.

Like this.

Just to be 100% clear. You have two Spark staff who are extremely familiar with the broadband service from a design and operational perspective, saying that there's no chance that Spark is deliberately throttling your downloads at this time.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

n4

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#1170235 6-Nov-2014 18:13

Talkiet:
n4:
chevrolux: Yes Spark are watching your every move and singling out specific downloads if they don't suit their current marketting strategy.

.... see how ridiculous that sounds. Could you even imagine the resource that would

I'm not saying it is happening in this specific case, but you would be naive to think it couldn't be done or isn't happening elsewhere. Slowing down non-time critical sessions (eg file downloads) to allow better service for time critical sessions (eg voice, video) is a sensible way to manage network congestion - even if only temporarily.

Like this.

Just to be 100% clear. You have two Spark staff who are extremely familiar with the broadband service from a design and operational perspective, saying that there's no chance that Spark is deliberately throttling your downloads at this time.

Cheers - N

'At this time.' Yes, I think that says it all :-)

I am completely willing to accept your assurances that this is the case. My point is that you can't say it isn't happening on the basis that it is too resource intensive to implement.

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Talkiet

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#1170236 6-Nov-2014 18:16

n4:
Talkiet:
n4:
chevrolux: Yes Spark are watching your every move and singling out specific downloads if they don't suit their current marketting strategy.

.... see how ridiculous that sounds. Could you even imagine the resource that would

I'm not saying it is happening in this specific case, but you would be naive to think it couldn't be done or isn't happening elsewhere. Slowing down non-time critical sessions (eg file downloads) to allow better service for time critical sessions (eg voice, video) is a sensible way to manage network congestion - even if only temporarily.

Like this.

Just to be 100% clear. You have two Spark staff who are extremely familiar with the broadband service from a design and operational perspective, saying that there's no chance that Spark is deliberately throttling your downloads at this time.

Cheers - N

'At this time.' Yes, I think that says it all.

No it doesn't. It's the sort of thing I say to make sure I am being as accurate as possible. You've asked a question and gotten a totally accurate and straight answer - I don't understand why you're trying to read something else into it.

There's no chance I'm going to say "Spark will never throttle your downloads" because, well, basically, I don't know the future.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

n4

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#1170241 6-Nov-2014 18:29

Talkiet:
n4:
Talkiet:
n4:
chevrolux: Yes Spark are watching your every move and singling out specific downloads if they don't suit their current marketting strategy.

.... see how ridiculous that sounds. Could you even imagine the resource that would

I'm not saying it is happening in this specific case, but you would be naive to think it couldn't be done or isn't happening elsewhere. Slowing down non-time critical sessions (eg file downloads) to allow better service for time critical sessions (eg voice, video) is a sensible way to manage network congestion - even if only temporarily.

Like this.

Just to be 100% clear. You have two Spark staff who are extremely familiar with the broadband service from a design and operational perspective, saying that there's no chance that Spark is deliberately throttling your downloads at this time.

Cheers - N

'At this time.' Yes, I think that says it all.

No it doesn't. It's the sort of thing I say to make sure I am being as accurate as possible. You've asked a question and gotten a totally accurate and straight answer - I don't understand why you're trying to read something else into it.

There's no chance I'm going to say "Spark will never throttle your downloads" because, well, basically, I don't know the future.

This is a fun conversation. OK, I accept your clarification, although I do think you were inviting it a little bit. However the Spark policy mentioned above specifically reserves the right to do it in the future, so I don't have to read anything into your answer. And this all goes to support MY point that even if it isn't happening now, you can't rule it out on the basis of it being too hard. Anyhoo, enough O/T banter :-)

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Jase2985

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#1170283 6-Nov-2014 19:56

if you read pretty much every other ISP's T&C's it says something to that effect too.

seeing as you want it back on topic how about you answer the relevant questions you have been asked

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geekIT

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#1170584 7-Nov-2014 10:20

I'm the OP. I wasn't sure how my original post would be received, or if it would even be allowed, so I kept it brief. There's more .

I've been with Telecom (as Telecom) for most of the 25 years or so that I've been online. My eventual move away was prompted by dissatisfaction with a) frequent outages, b) their move to an offshore helpdesk, and c) the offer of a better plan with XNet. I was with that telco for 3-4 years, and it was during that time that I began downloading movies and TV shows. Most of these files were hosted by two main subscription services, and to facilitate the file downloads, I used Internet Download Manager, which splits files into several parts for faster and more efficient downloads, as well as offering a Resume function, in case a download is interrupted for any reason.

During the time I was with XNet, I had no download problems of any kind. Sure, there was the occasional outage, but any broken download was always able to be resumed via Internet Download Manager and top speed was always a constant.

When we shifted towns a year ago, we re-engaged Telecom, mainly because of the free modem, an improved plan, and my expectation that their overall service must surely have improved during the hiatus.

I won't go into a long diatribe: Suffice to say that from that time on, my downloading system began to deteriorate. Now, a TV show of say, 500mb size, sourced from either of the subscription services I mentioned above (and deliberately didn't name) will download via Internet Download Manager at a max speed of about 200-240 kb\sec and the Resume function is no longer available. Nothing sinister there, you might say? Nothing unusual about that? Except when you consider that downloads from 'vanilla' sources like Microsoft or any one of hundreds of other perfectly legit and 'non-shady' file dispensers, stream into my several computers almost seven times faster at 1.5-1.6 Mb\sec and with full Resume.

My first several complaint calls were to Telecom's helpdesk (not yet Spark) and the staff were adamant that they didn't 'mess' with anyone's downloads.

So my next twenty or thirty complaints over the following six months were emails to the aforementioned hosting services and they were equally adamant that the problem wasn't at their end. As they pointed out, why would they make things difficult for their paying customers?

I got the same response from the publisher of the Internet Download Manager software. His advice - Talk to your ISP.

Full circle. So, do I write this off as yet another of those odd little computer mysteries? Or do I assume that if it looks and quacks like a duck, then it most likely is. In which case another ISP move might be in order.

PS: What is 'Teredo Tunneling', anyway?

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cbrpilot

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#1170591 7-Nov-2014 10:27

Are you using HTTP or HTTPS?

My views are my own, and may not necessarily represent those of my employer.

Talkiet

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#1170620 7-Nov-2014 11:01

Where abouts are you shady downloads being sourced from? (what country?)

Stuff like Microsoft and other 'perfectly legit' downloads are frequently sourced from CDN nodes on our own network. In many cases from server farms connected directly to our core by redundant multiple 10G links.

While there could be other issues at play, I'm not surprised to see a dramatic difference between offshore (I presume) dodgy file lockers and brilliantly connected local traffic sources where the content owner has a contract with the CDN provider who ensures that they have the best possible connectivity to our network.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

robjg63

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#1170680 7-Nov-2014 11:59

Rather than the ISP deliberately conspiring against your downloads its more likely a plain old backhaul issue.

Just because I have an X mbps internet connection doesnt mean I can get that speed with downloads from a site.
There are lots of connections inside the 'internet' - your download will only go as fast as the weakest part of the connection.

Perhaps the other ISP you mentioned has a bit more spare bandwidth or a better configured network - in relation to wherever you are trying to download from anyway.

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Stu

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#1170682 7-Nov-2014 12:00

So, to confirm, Xnet at your old address was sweet but when you moved you changed to Telecom/Spark and now you see problems?

Perhaps either an internal wiring issue or an issue with Chorus equipment at the exchange/cabinet or cabling?

Spark haven't yet started shaping traffic. Either on a whole or selectively.

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Nebbie

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#1170756 7-Nov-2014 12:37

By the sounds when you moved to Spark your connection now is going via Bluecoat (transparent caching appliance) most ISP's have these, I've noticed that they can break download resumers.
Do TCP ping on port 80 (Assuming your using HTTP not HTTPS) and see how far it gets.

As for Microsoft downloads etc, these are usually hosted on the Akamai Cluster that I know Spark has, this will go at normal line speed unless is overloaded when a Apple IOS update comes out.

Also are you able to provide traceroutes both forward and reverse?

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geekIT

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#1170889 7-Nov-2014 14:31

Firstly, thanks to everyone who's contributed to this thread. I'm an IT tech and PC builder with a reasonable understanding of the Internet but it's easy to become paranoid when everyone involved is claiming either innocence or ignorance and offering no effective explanations or solutions.

The hosting sites in question are Uploaded in Switzerland, and Rapidgator in, I believe, Cyprus. Both sites are HTTPS, AFAIK.

I'm now in Otautau, Southland and the exchange IS a bit primitive, I think. Like, we're paying for Caller Display (a hangover from our last connection in Arrowtown) but can't get the service here, apparently because the cabinet needs an update.

Nebbie, I can do a Traceroute, sure, but for which address?

Cheers all :-)

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Jase2985

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#1171075 7-Nov-2014 18:56

so the file has to come 1/2 way round the world and you are expecting it to come down at line speed?

do a speed test to a server in Cyprus or in Switzerland and see how that compares to what you get to say Auckland.

Spark why am i only getting 6Mbps to Switzerland when im on a 50Mbps connection, they must be shaping my traffic. see how that sounds?

you are reading into things way way too much. there is nothing sinister going on.

plambrechtsen

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#1171235 8-Nov-2014 07:20

Rappelle:
cbrpilot: geekIT, we do not interfere with your downloads.
I would know.

Creeeeeepyyy...

Not really when you are talking directly with the senior engineer who built the broadband network. If anyone would know its Dave.

You have the senior engineer who built it here talking openly. So I would say that's amazing considering our size. Not creepy at all.

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