A question/rant about cabinetisation

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964 posts

Ultimate Geek
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Spark NZ

#467045 9-May-2011 11:03

Define "decent broadband".

A sync rate of 7 meg should not cause jitter and high ping. The presence of these may indicate some sort of line fault (either within your premises, or external to it).

What tests have you run? What is your usual "ping", and what does it spike to? And which server are you pinging?

My views are my own, and may not necessarily represent those of my employer.

RedJalapeno

65 posts

Master Geek

#467076 9-May-2011 12:17

I was under the impression that high attenuation lead to higher latency and lower speeds. Pings to game servers (nz cod 4 servers, league of legends etc etc) have always been around 30-40ms higher than others I play with who are in Auckland and are cabinetised. Also the higher attenuation makes my line unsuitable for turning interleaving off which would account for some of the difference in latency.

Tracert to trademe.co.nz

Tracing route to www.trademe.co.nz [202.162.73.2]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 2 27 ms 50 ms 48 ms 68.16.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz [111.69.16.68]

3 26 ms 25 ms 25 ms 244.16.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz [111.69.16.244
]
4 26 ms 77 ms 25 ms 111-69-3-197.core.snap.net.nz [111.69.3.197]
5 * * * Request timed out.
6 * 45 ms 46 ms snap.ape.net.nz [192.203.154.120]
7 44 ms 44 ms 43 ms www.trademe.co.nz [202.162.73.2]

Trace complete.

Pings on speedtest.net are just weird, it happens with my parent line aswell (same house, they're with Orcon)

I rang up Orcon and inquired about latency and speed back when I was still on the first line, they said it was due to the distance from the exchange.

*Edit: Incoming line was repaired a while ago due to possible water damage, telephone pole connection thing was checked aswell and deemed non faulty

cbrpilot

964 posts

Ultimate Geek
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Spark NZ

#467203 9-May-2011 17:39

RedJalapeno: I was under the impression that high attenuation lead to higher latency and lower speeds. Pings to game servers (nz cod 4 servers, league of legends etc etc) have always been around 30-40ms higher than others I play with who are in Auckland and are cabinetised. Also the higher attenuation makes my line unsuitable for turning interleaving off which would account for some of the difference in latency.

Attenuation (in this case) has to do with the electrical transmission capabilities (at a given frequency) on a piece of copper. High attenuation will lead to lower bit-loading for a given frequency bin, and thus a lower connect rate. I.e. it's a bandwidth thing, not a latency thing. For the purists out there, yes there is a relationship between bandwidth and latency, but it is not significant.

The 30-40ms will have to do with the interleaving. Have you tried having it off? Just because you're far away (i.e. high attenuation) doesn't necessarily mean it won't work. The worst thing that can happen is that your connection will not be as stable with interleaving off and you'll have more packet loss on the DSL link. If this happens, and you complain, the first thing your ISP will do is to get it turned back on. Turning off interleaving should decrease your latency by around 32ms.

Packet loss and (somewhat) latency are a slightly different matter. Packet loss within a network is usually caused by congestion. And congestion is something you need to talk to your ISP about. Increases in latency can occur if a packet is queued somewhere (due to congestion).

My views are my own, and may not necessarily represent those of my employer.

RedJalapeno

65 posts

Master Geek

#467248 9-May-2011 19:03

The Orcon line had interleaving turned off originally, which lead to the router resetting every half hour, haven't tried it off with Snap yet, as it will likely have the same result... I noticed 2 chorus vans and a ute at the ordinary cabinet i'm connected to with techs working in it, HOPING its some kind of preliminary prep for cabinetisation

exportgoldman

1202 posts

Uber Geek
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#467271 9-May-2011 19:46

I am in the same boat as you, our broadband connection in Parnell Road opposite Ayr Street is literally the last of the Cabinet's to be rolled out, September 2011 when I last checked.

Currently we get a ADSL sync of 2.5 Megabits and a real world speedtest around 2 megabits.

And since we are on the Slingshot All You Can Eat connection, it seems to be getting slower every month so we can't even watch youtube.

Can't wait till we get cabinatised!!!

Having said that, we get ping times of around 8ms to 203.97.33.1 with no ADSL dropouts, so I suspect not only are you right on the edge of the ADSL footprint like we are (We hook onto Maroyal Drive exchange) but may have a faulty line as well.

Our connection doesn't have interleaving on but is rock solid.

Tyler - Parnell Geek - iPhone 3G - Lenovo X301 - Kaseya - Great Western Steak House, these are some of my favourite things.

RedJalapeno

65 posts

Master Geek

#467296 9-May-2011 20:22

Very interesting, so how would I go about getting my line checked out and how much would it cost me?

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swalker5872

60 posts

Master Geek

#467308 9-May-2011 20:50

To OP and other posters.
Remember that if you are not a Telecom Retail customer and a cabinet is put in you may or may not be served from it depending on your ISP and if they buy the Telecom Wholesale product or not for your area. My girlfriends folks were cabinetised but their ISP does not wholesale the Telecom product (unless they were to pay them more (Hamilton)) so their speeds actually dropped following this.
Have a look at other threads here on GZ for more info but good idea to have a chat with your ISP before you sign up to a long term contract if you have yet to be put onto a cabinet but are scheduled to be.

NonprayingMantis

6434 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1528

#467372 10-May-2011 07:20

swalker5872: To OP and other posters.
Remember that if you are not a Telecom Retail customer and a cabinet is put in you may or may not be served from it depending on your ISP and if they buy the Telecom Wholesale product or not for your area. My girlfriends folks were cabinetised but their ISP does not wholesale the Telecom product (unless they were to pay them more (Hamilton)) so their speeds actually dropped following this.
Have a look at other threads here on GZ for more info but good idea to have a chat with your ISP before you sign up to a long term contract if you have yet to be put onto a cabinet but are scheduled to be.

AFAIK there are no NZ ISPs that do not offer a telecom wholesale broadband connection.

swalker5872

60 posts

Master Geek

#467387 10-May-2011 08:27

I think this is right but happy to be corrected by those with better knowledge than me!

Orcon, Red Network as examples have unbundled exchanges and you would be served from the exchange not the cabinet.
Yes its also correct that they also wholesale Telecom product in areas where they have not unbundled the exchange, but where they have unbundled the terminus exchange (correct technical term?) then you would be transmitted over copper from your house to the exchange not to the cabinet (for services that is!).

Assuming that the above is correct then it pays to be careful if you have an ISP who has unbundled an exchange and you are due to be cabinetised!

Best idea is to have a look round GZ forums and see if the above is correct and if so what implications that can have.

swalker5872

60 posts

Master Geek

#467390 10-May-2011 08:34

ok heres a sample, dated but I think still valid.

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=82&topicid=42815

Refer to the link from Ragnors post as example.

http://www.orcon.net.nz/about/article/cabinetisation_what_does_it_mean_for_orcon_customers

Ragnor

8279 posts

Uber Geek
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#467636 10-May-2011 16:38

You have definitely drawn the short straw there, in a cabinetisation hole.

Black dot with the green highlight for where the exchange is, like you said earlier on Porounui street so probably 2-3km of line.

It's quite a high population area so you can only hope they expand the cabinet area closest to you or put in more cabinets.

The data on the site isn't always 100% upto date with their plans.

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RedJalapeno

65 posts

Master Geek

#467641 10-May-2011 16:51

Yea I was surprised that the mount eden exchange area was so undercabinetised compared to other exchanges, considering its a major residential zone. I am HOPING the map at the moment isn't final, but it most likely will be since its got the Dec dates for cabinets.

*Edit: And of course they cabinetised freaking Epsom fully...

Ragnor

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Uber Geek
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#467644 10-May-2011 16:57

Re-reading the earlier posts you've got two lines with active ADSL service, one from Snap provided (over Telecom wholesale / Chorus equipment) and the other over Orcon+ (Orcon LLU gear)?

Do both of those have master filters fitted with dedicated ADSL jacks? If not getting those fitted could help a lot with your line stability and allow you to get interleaving turned off.

Dyanmix ADSL/VDSL master filters are <$30 ea on trademe these days, you'd need one for each line and some basic DIY skills to install them. Might want to get a pro if the internal wiring is daisy chained though if you are not confident.

RedJalapeno

65 posts

Master Geek

#467673 10-May-2011 17:40

Neither of them have master filters, however is there really any point for naked adsl that definitely doesn't have wiring issues? I can see the benefit for Orcon line

RedJalapeno

65 posts

Master Geek

#467686 10-May-2011 17:54

Just talked with snap about interleaving and apparently its off? O.O ...which means something is seriously wrong with the line

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