Telecom first NZ telco to trial 4G over APT700 MHz band

Forums › Spark New Zealand (including Skinny and BigPipe) › Telecom first NZ telco to trial 4G over APT700 MHz band

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#1034468 1-May-2014 07:59

eXDee: Can anyone confirmed Vodafone actually used APT700 and that Telecom's claim to be the first to test it out is false?

I don't think anything will get officially confirmed, but it's well known that their single RAN kit is capable and that many sites are quite possibly ready to go. Highly likely they would have had some sites active for testing by now.

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#1034471 1-May-2014 08:14

coffeebaron:
eXDee: Can anyone confirmed Vodafone actually used APT700 and that Telecom's claim to be the first to test it out is false?

I don't think anything will get officially confirmed, but it's well known that their single RAN kit is capable and that many sites are quite possibly ready to go. Highly likely they would have had some sites active for testing by now.

I can't find any current licences issued to Vodafone in the 700MHz band. Found the Telecom ones.

Also found a couple of 700MHz frequencies issued to 2Degrees too. Hmmmm.

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#1034475 1-May-2014 08:22

It is annoying that telecom knew they were selling phones that would soon be obsolete without informing their customers.

Not everyone is an expert like yourself or follow a companies network plans.

Personally, I may have delayed purchased my iphone 5s if I had known this. But, thats why telecom didn't want to say right?

It goes back to the days under Teresa Gattung, where obfuscation and confusion were valuable tools.

Although, if this network is several years away then that would be OK. It depends on the timing.

That's a bit silly.
You need to be aware that 700MHz is targeted for RURAL areas and isn't likely to be live until late 2014 or early 2015.
Even if you had a compatible phone, you wouldn't be able to take advantage of it unless you live rurally or travel rurally... Once it gets deployed.

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#1034477 1-May-2014 08:25

kiwiharry:
coffeebaron:
eXDee: Can anyone confirmed Vodafone actually used APT700 and that Telecom's claim to be the first to test it out is false?

I don't think anything will get officially confirmed, but it's well known that their single RAN kit is capable and that many sites are quite possibly ready to go. Highly likely they would have had some sites active for testing by now.

I can't find any current licences issued to Vodafone in the 700MHz band. Found the Telecom ones.

Also found a couple of 700MHz frequencies issued to 2Degrees too. Hmmmm.

I haven't found any 700 for Vodafone either - perhaps the paper work hasn't made it to RSM yet :) Or it's "borrowed" from the current holder, or testing has been in their concrete bunker. Sites can still have the kit without the license if it's not yet in use. Not sure what the rules are if its under test though.

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#1034484 1-May-2014 08:35

hamish225: why would vodafone use the US band plan in new zealand?

and if they can just decide to use that one why doesnt telecom and 2degrees use it too, there would be more devices supported, right?

The trials last year involved the US B & C bands along with US devices that supported these bands. These bands will not be used in NZ, the APT band will.

Why? Because there wasn't a single device available in the world that supported the APT band, and network vendors were also in the final stages of completing interop testing for the APT band for their kit, which meant they also had no gear they could deploy.

Why not just use the US bands in NZ? Because they're a joke - they have several blocks in them due to existing users and make very inefficient use of the spectrum. There has been some talk of the US ultimately clearing out existing users and moving towards adoption of the APT bandplan, but whether this will ever happen is anybody's guess.

US devices are also band specific - there are 3 LTE bands in the US and I'm not even sure if there is yet a single device yet that supports all 3 bands in use in the US.

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#1034530 1-May-2014 09:15

thegeekboy:

It is annoying that telecom knew they were selling phones that would soon be obsolete without informing their customers.

Not everyone is an expert like yourself or follow a companies network plans.

Personally, I may have delayed purchased my iphone 5s if I had known this. But, thats why telecom didn't want to say right?

It goes back to the days under Teresa Gattung, where obfuscation and confusion were valuable tools.

Although, if this network is several years away then that would be OK. It depends on the timing.

That's a bit silly.
You need to be aware that 700MHz is targeted for RURAL areas and isn't likely to be live until late 2014 or early 2015.
Even if you had a compatible phone, you wouldn't be able to take advantage of it unless you live rurally or travel rurally... Once it gets deployed.

I don't think it is silly at all and what is silly or foolish to you might not be silly to others.

The reason I bought my last phone was because I knew 4g would soon be available and the phone had 4g. It would have been silly to buy a 3g phone when I knew 4g was coming out soon. Same logic.

I could find this 700mhz band very useful in the rural BOP areas for a start (where the current reception is not great). And, I would delay buying a $1350 phone by 1 year. But, I wouldn't delay if it were 2 years off. As stated.

But, I don't think store staff would be expected to know this either so it is a good lesson for the future to do a quick Q&A on geekzone so the resident experts can help out with a bit of info.

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#1034623 1-May-2014 10:39

coffeebaron:
kiwiharry:
coffeebaron:
eXDee: Can anyone confirmed Vodafone actually used APT700 and that Telecom's claim to be the first to test it out is false?

I don't think anything will get officially confirmed, but it's well known that their single RAN kit is capable and that many sites are quite possibly ready to go. Highly likely they would have had some sites active for testing by now.

I can't find any current licences issued to Vodafone in the 700MHz band. Found the Telecom ones.

Also found a couple of 700MHz frequencies issued to 2Degrees too. Hmmmm.

I haven't found any 700 for Vodafone either - perhaps the paper work hasn't made it to RSM yet :) Or it's "borrowed" from the current holder, or testing has been in their concrete bunker. Sites can still have the kit without the license if it's not yet in use. Not sure what the rules are if its under test though.

Rules for test licences for the 700 MHz band (and other bands) are covered here. In the past VFNZ has applied for test licences in the 700 band at Lake Brunner and borrowing any licences from the competition would seem very odd indeed.

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#1034628 1-May-2014 10:41

coffeebaron:
kiwiharry:
coffeebaron:
eXDee: Can anyone confirmed Vodafone actually used APT700 and that Telecom's claim to be the first to test it out is false?

I don't think anything will get officially confirmed, but it's well known that their single RAN kit is capable and that many sites are quite possibly ready to go. Highly likely they would have had some sites active for testing by now.

I can't find any current licences issued to Vodafone in the 700MHz band. Found the Telecom ones.

Also found a couple of 700MHz frequencies issued to 2Degrees too. Hmmmm.

I haven't found any 700 for Vodafone either - perhaps the paper work hasn't made it to RSM yet :) Or it's "borrowed" from the current holder, or testing has been in their concrete bunker. Sites can still have the kit without the license if it's not yet in use. Not sure what the rules are if its under test though.

wellygary

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#1034637 1-May-2014 10:51

knoydart: borrowing any licences from the competition would seem very odd indeed.

They woudl not have been borrowing from the competition, but from the Legacy operators of the spectrum that have now vacated it ahead of the 700Mhz auction and roll out

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#1034650 1-May-2014 10:55

wellygary: They woudl not have been borrowing from the competition, but from the Legacy operators of the spectrum that have now vacated it ahead of the 700Mhz auction and roll out

DSO for all but all but one tourist channel based in Queenstown, occured in Auckland last December. There are no incumbants right now as the "legacy" operators have moved to digital based television services all below 650MHz

sbiddle

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#1034755 1-May-2014 12:34

I see this as being very different. Your phone supported the LTE bands that currently operated at the time you purchased the phone. If you're going blame Telecom for not telling you, maybe you should also be blaming Apple for not telling you.

When you purchased the phone there wasn't (and still isn't right now) a single live publically accessible network anywhere in the world using the APT band. It was only in January this year that the first live call was made on a test network by Telstra. There weren't even any even production chipsets that supported this band when Apple created the iPhone5 . As for live networks, I suspect we'll see the first live networks in this band within the next 6 months in the APAC region.

You obviously knew about the 700Mhz band and LTE enough to assume that your phone would support it, which obviously wasn't correct.

If you can't get 3G coverage now on the 900Mhz band it's doubtful that you'll get LTE coverage if and when a 700Mhz network is deployed to that area.

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#1034955 1-May-2014 17:02

sbiddle: I see this as being very different. Your phone supported the LTE bands that currently operated at the time you purchased the phone. If you're going blame Telecom for not telling you, maybe you should also be blaming Apple for not telling you.

When you purchased the phone there wasn't (and still isn't right now) a single live publically accessible network anywhere in the world using the APT band. It was only in January this year that the first live call was made on a test network by Telstra. There weren't even any even production chipsets that supported this band when Apple created the iPhone5 . As for live networks, I suspect we'll see the first live networks in this band within the next 6 months in the APAC region.

You obviously knew about the 700Mhz band and LTE enough to assume that your phone would support it, which obviously wasn't correct.

If you can't get 3G coverage now on the 900Mhz band it's doubtful that you'll get LTE coverage if and when a 700Mhz network is deployed to that area.

Telecom does not have 4G in Tauranga, but, they will be getting it sometime in the future. So, you're making an incorrect assumption to start.

While there is not a single live network now, as i said, i can wait 12 months rather than spending $1000+ a few months ago.

I can get 3g now in the area I am speaking about (holiday home), but it is rather weak. From what I understand, the new 700Mhz might help.

If I could go back in time and wait, I would.

And, as I said earlier, maybe the telecom store staff will not know about telecoms future plans and that I will ask here before I buy my next phone. So, I'm not really blaming telecom.

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#1034962 1-May-2014 17:24

Nobody van speak to future plans of networks that are not made yet. May as well not buy any tech ever if you are worried about new things coming along making them obsolete.

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#1035076 1-May-2014 19:22

surfisup1000:
sbiddle: I see this as being very different. Your phone supported the LTE bands that currently operated at the time you purchased the phone. If you're going blame Telecom for not telling you, maybe you should also be blaming Apple for not telling you.

When you purchased the phone there wasn't (and still isn't right now) a single live publically accessible network anywhere in the world using the APT band. It was only in January this year that the first live call was made on a test network by Telstra. There weren't even any even production chipsets that supported this band when Apple created the iPhone5 . As for live networks, I suspect we'll see the first live networks in this band within the next 6 months in the APAC region.

You obviously knew about the 700Mhz band and LTE enough to assume that your phone would support it, which obviously wasn't correct.

If you can't get 3G coverage now on the 900Mhz band it's doubtful that you'll get LTE coverage if and when a 700Mhz network is deployed to that area.

Telecom does not have 4G in Tauranga, but, they will be getting it sometime in the future. So, you're making an incorrect assumption to start.

While there is not a single live network now, as i said, i can wait 12 months rather than spending $1000+ a few months ago.

I can get 3g now in the area I am speaking about (holiday home), but it is rather weak. From what I understand, the new 700Mhz might help.

If I could go back in time and wait, I would.

And, as I said earlier, maybe the telecom store staff will not know about telecoms future plans and that I will ask here before I buy my next phone. So, I'm not really blaming telecom.

I didn't make any assumptions about Tauranga having 4G - I said the iPhone5 supported the LTE bands that were in use in NZ at the time it was sold, and still in use now.

A 700Mhz network isn't going to help with coverage if 850/900 aren't delivering coverage right now. Both air interfaces are very, very different, and if anything there is a much greater chance of it being worse, not better, if deployed from the same site.

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#1035230 2-May-2014 06:25

sbiddle: I didn't make any assumptions about Tauranga having 4G - I said the iPhone5 supported the LTE bands that were in use in NZ at the time it was sold, and still in use now.

A 700Mhz network isn't going to help with coverage if 850/900 aren't delivering coverage right now. Both air interfaces are very, very different, and if anything there is a much greater chance of it being worse, not better, if deployed from the same site.

Not if the big brains in the radio engineering team have anything to do with it.

In all seriousness to the folks complaining that their x model phone doesn't support the APT LTE Band 28. There are no live networks running APT, the device selection is slim right now and primarily focused on Datacards (as it's a pure data service remember!).

So my personal guesstimate is 12-18 months there should be at least 2 or 3 major OEMs (iPhone xS?, Samsung Galaxy Sx, HTC x) that have APT capable devices on the market. As as rightfully been said a number of times, it's rather chicken vs egg vs chicken coop. The APT band is just becoming available after the governments in their own countries have the spectrum and sold it off to the Telco. The telco's then need to go to their Mobile Hardware vendors to get the gear that supports APT installed. Then all the handset manufactures need the chipsets to support those bands.

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