BigPipe high latency fibre connection

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#2520381 9-Jul-2020 21:14

nztim:

Wired (not wireless) to my router I am between 2-5ms to my next hop in Auckland (from my home in Wellington)

C:\Users\lawt>ping 125.236.192.9

Pinging 125.236.192.9 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 125.236.192.9: bytes=32 time=2ms TTL=64
Reply from 125.236.192.9: bytes=32 time=5ms TTL=64
Reply from 125.236.192.9: bytes=32 time=4ms TTL=64
Reply from 125.236.192.9: bytes=32 time=2ms TTL=64

That's is not that bad latency, it is simply not practical for RSPs to add a bunch of /32 routes for people on static IPs to the local handover, and, if they move to an area with a different handover go change that route table again, it would be an administrative nightmare

part of the parcel with having a Static IP

Don't mean to single you out Tim, but this is also incorrect. The IP address you are pinging is on every BNG, and only reachable by Static IP users. So wherever in the country you are it will be your local BNG.

The speed of light in a fibre is fast, but it's not that fast. Auckland and Wellington are further than 2ms away. On my home connection (VDSL) it's about 12ms to my local BNG (mostly interleaving delay etc), and about 22ms to a server in Auckland, so my observed latency between Auckland Wellington is about 10ms round trip. YMMV.

My views are my own, and may not necessarily represent those of my employer.

nztim

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#2520390 9-Jul-2020 21:44

cbrpilot:

Don't mean to single you out Tim, but this is also incorrect. The IP address you are pinging is on every BNG, and only reachable by Static IP users. So wherever in the country you are it will be your local BNG.

The speed of light in a fibre is fast, but it's not that fast. Auckland and Wellington are further than 2ms away. On my home connection (VDSL) it's about 12ms to my local BNG (mostly interleaving delay etc), and about 22ms to a server in Auckland, so my observed latency between Auckland Wellington is about 10ms round trip. YMMV.

I have no issue with been corrected :), so my connection is Layer2 only to the Gateway in Central Exchange then?

does that mean, lets say, my IP is 210.54.39.A and someone in Christchurch has 210.54.39.B do you have individual /32 routes to each handover?

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

cbrpilot

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#2520435 9-Jul-2020 22:44

nztim:

cbrpilot:

Don't mean to single you out Tim, but this is also incorrect. The IP address you are pinging is on every BNG, and only reachable by Static IP users. So wherever in the country you are it will be your local BNG.

The speed of light in a fibre is fast, but it's not that fast. Auckland and Wellington are further than 2ms away. On my home connection (VDSL) it's about 12ms to my local BNG (mostly interleaving delay etc), and about 22ms to a server in Auckland, so my observed latency between Auckland Wellington is about 10ms round trip. YMMV.

I have no issue with been corrected :), so my connection is Layer2 only to the Gateway in Central Exchange then?

does that mean, lets say, my IP is 210.54.39.A and someone in Christchurch has 210.54.39.B do you have individual /32 routes to each handover?

Yes, your connection is only Layer 2 until it hits the first (non-transport) hop of the Spark network.

Static IP addresses in our network are /32 routes internally. That means you can move house from one end of the country to the other and keep the same Static IP.

Nope, they are not statically configured routes on individual routers - that would be a headache to manage!

My views are my own, and may not necessarily represent those of my employer.

nztim

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#2520783 10-Jul-2020 14:01

cbrpilot:

Yes, your connection is only Layer 2 until it hits the first (non-transport) hop of the Spark network.

Static IP addresses in our network are /32 routes internally. That means you can move house from one end of the country to the other and keep the same Static IP.

Nope, they are not statically configured routes on individual routers - that would be a headache to manage!

Wow even with BGP that route table must be Huge!

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

cbrpilot

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#2520845 10-Jul-2020 16:14

nztim:

Wow even with BGP that route table must be Huge!

Well it doesn't fit within a single page, no, but well within the capability of a modern router.

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#2521007 11-Jul-2020 09:32

cbrpilot:

nztim:

Wow even with BGP that route table must be Huge!

Well it doesn't fit within a single page, no, but well within the capability of a modern router.

And well within capacity of an older router too ;) Perhaps if we think old as 7+ years then yeah :)

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EnragedStoat

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#2521016 11-Jul-2020 10:06

cbrpilot:

You should have a very low latency on Fibre to your BNG no matter what category of IP you have.

Yes Static IP does have some minor differences with it due to how the routing works - but it should not result in noticeably worse performance.

The speed of light in a fibre is fast, but it's not that fast. Auckland and Wellington are further than 2ms away. On my home connection (VDSL) it's about 12ms to my local BNG (mostly interleaving delay etc), and about 22ms to a server in Auckland, so my observed latency between Auckland Wellington is about 10ms round trip. YMMV.

Apologies for combining quotes from multiple posts of yours but this all sounds like your VDSL connection is significantly lower latency than the fibre just installed here. I can only dream of a 10ms roundtrip from my location in Wellington to Auckland. Currently it's 3x that, 2/3 of which is just getting to Wellington <50km away. I'd be super grateful for any insight as to why my latency is so bad. Is there something particular about the infrastructure here in Kapiti Coast causing the first hop to be so delayed?

Pinging speedtest-wellington.spark.co.nz [219.88.203.6] with 32 bytes of data...
Minimum = 21ms, Maximum = 21ms, Average = 21ms

Pinging speedtest-auckland.spark.co.nz [219.88.203.2] with 32 bytes of data...
Minimum = 30ms, Maximum = 30ms, Average = 30ms

cbrpilot

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#2521596 12-Jul-2020 22:07

Good evening EnragedStoat, no there are no obvious reasons why a connection in Kapiti would have 21ms latency to Wellington.

Do you have any applications running the background that could be using your bandwidth while running this test (e.g. torrent clients etc)? I'm losing track of who had what in this thread, so forgive me if you've already said in a previous page in this thread - do you have a Static IP?

My views are my own, and may not necessarily represent those of my employer.

Talkiet

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#2521598 12-Jul-2020 22:10

Also, could you try pinging 219.88.188.70, 219.88.188.134 and 219.88.188.7 and paste the outputs here please?

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

EnragedStoat

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#2521599 12-Jul-2020 22:11

cbrpilot:

Good evening EnragedStoat, no there are no obvious reasons why a connection in Kapiti would have 21ms latency to Wellington.

Do you have any applications running the background that could be using your bandwidth while running this test (e.g. torrent clients etc)? I'm losing track of who had what in this thread, so forgive me if you've already said in a previous page in this thread - do you have a Static IP?

No worries. Tried with and without static IP, same result. Also directly wired i7 desktop to the ONT (PPPoE connection) linked at gigabit speed, same result. Fastest I have ever seen to Wellington is 18ms.

EnragedStoat

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#2521600 12-Jul-2020 22:14

Talkiet:

Also, could you try pinging 219.88.188.70, 219.88.188.134 and 219.88.188.7 and paste the outputs here please?

Sure...

Pinging 219.88.188.70 with 32 bytes of data:
Packets: Sent = 11, Received = 11, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Minimum = 21ms, Maximum = 21ms, Average = 21ms

Pinging 219.88.188.134 with 32 bytes of data:
Packets: Sent = 11, Received = 11, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Minimum = 25ms, Maximum = 26ms, Average = 25ms

Pinging 219.88.188.7 with 32 bytes of data:
Packets: Sent = 11, Received = 11, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Minimum = 30ms, Maximum = 32ms, Average = 30ms

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Talkiet

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#2521601 12-Jul-2020 22:16

EnragedStoat:

Talkiet:

Also, could you try pinging 219.88.188.70, 219.88.188.134 and 219.88.188.7 and paste the outputs here please?

Sure...

Pinging 219.88.188.70 with 32 bytes of data:
Packets: Sent = 11, Received = 11, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Minimum = 21ms, Maximum = 21ms, Average = 21ms

Pinging 219.88.188.134 with 32 bytes of data:
Packets: Sent = 11, Received = 11, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Minimum = 25ms, Maximum = 26ms, Average = 25ms

Pinging 219.88.188.7 with 32 bytes of data:
Packets: Sent = 11, Received = 11, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Minimum = 30ms, Maximum = 32ms, Average = 30ms

Thanks - Can you try a tracert to the .70 please?

Regardless, CBR and myself will talk about this in the morning as well.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

EnragedStoat

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#2521602 12-Jul-2020 22:23

Talkiet:

Thanks - Can you try a tracert to the .70 please?

Regardless, CBR and myself will talk about this in the morning as well.

Sure thing...

Tracing route to cache.google.com [219.88.188.70]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.81.1
2 18 ms 18 ms 19 ms 125-239-203-1.jetstream.xtra.co.nz [125.239.203.1]
3 21 ms 21 ms 21 ms 222.152.41.187
4 21 ms 21 ms 21 ms cache.google.com [219.88.188.70]

Trace complete.

JonoNZ

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#2521624 13-Jul-2020 07:23

Quick update, my Fibre for the Napier property changed over to Spark this morning (changed for a couple of reasons, not just the latency!), and I can confirm the latency has dropped significantly, and that is with a Spark static IP. So latency via Speedtest.com to Spark Auckland test server, over Wifi, is consistently lower than 14ms now (previously usually ~30ms).

cbrpilot

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#2522070 13-Jul-2020 13:16

Quick update from me here.

I believe we have found the issue for both Napier and Kapiti for Bigpipe customers. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

It would appear that (unknown to us) Chorus seem to take your traffic on a grand tour before it is handed over to our network - and is working as designed from their perspective. Obviously not ideal and we are exploring options to see if we can avoid this. Can't make any guarantees at this point but we are working on it!

Dave.

My views are my own, and may not necessarily represent those of my employer.

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