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BarTender
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  #2136275 28-Nov-2018 21:24
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networkn: Sorry, I read your comment to mean you thought China would be toast. I agree with the logic that Huawei would lose all credibilty and struggle to remain in the market.

 

I know China wouldn't care, but that being said if some provable espionage was occurring from state sponsored actors in China against a Telco it would add fuel to the fire and everyone would go "ah ha there you have it the Chinese can't be trusted" so it would have huge ramifications on their whole tech sector.

 

The other part of this whole argument which I wonder about is the ability to exfiltrate the data without being noticed. Anything that would really be useful would require a LOT of packet capturing and then shuffling that back to the mothership which granted in this age of 100GB links would be doable.

 

The only way I would see it working is to have the data plane constantly listening for a "magic packet" being initiated over the internet or a magic IMEI and then talking back to the command and control to extract the data out over the radio or the internet. But that would take storage and dedicated hardware just to inject traffic for the data plane. That would be much harder if not impossible to detect but could work for targeted attacks.

 

However that assumes that the equipment isn't dismantled before installation and questions don't get asked about what it is all doing.

 

I still think a malicious government funded actor within the organisation is a far more likely scenario than a particular back-door in the equipment.




Batman
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  #2136278 28-Nov-2018 21:41
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I heard that (not sure if true or not) the Chinese military technology are mainly stolen from the Pentagon via hacking.

 

So the American claims are not entirely unsubstantiated.

 

Just google and there are troves of articles, I'm not making this up.

 

I don't think the Chinese will retaliate, they have bigger problems to deal with aka Donald Trump.

 

Russian tech? Same thing. Luckily their top commander did not get the Interpol Chief job or we (global citizens) will be toast.


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  #2136336 28-Nov-2018 23:29
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GCSB has Huawei kit in for testing. Dang! We can't hack this equipment, it's too secure. How will we spy on our own people? OK order the directive to ban it, it is indeed a threat to national security.




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michaelmurfy
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  #2136342 29-Nov-2018 00:01
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coffeebaron: GCSB has Huawei kit in for testing. Dang! We can't hack this equipment, it's too secure. How will we spy on our own people? OK order the directive to ban it, it is indeed a threat to national security.

 

Just as I was thinking.

 

Huawei's spying is just a conspiracy unless if 5 eyes actually publish evidence. I'm more thinking they don't have any backdoors to the GCSB and thus they're forcing telco's to use other equipment that does. This, in itself is a conspiracy also but does also make sense. Huawei equipment is already in use here in NZ so the "threat" is already there if there was ever one to begin with.





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  #2136352 29-Nov-2018 00:50
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Lias:

 

I never understood why anyone, particularly Spark, thought this was going to go any other way.

 

They probably thought that because the network heavy lifting was being done by Cisco thus they were hoping that the most vulnerable piece of the puzzle wasn't being supplied by Huawei that the GCSB would over look it. With that being all said - why now? it seems rather selective and thus suspicious when there was nothing said regarding the use of Huawei in the new fibre network or when 2 Degrees Mobile was setup, the mobile phones or other equipment Huawei sold? if one were really concerned about security then why isn't there a focus on ensuring that routers, phones, network equipment etc. sold in New Zealand received security updates within a reasonable period of time if one were concerned having having vulnerabilities not only on the various networks but also the devices that operate on those networks? I have to ask what Maes 5G different to all the other deployments - I don't think we'll ever that answer and from an outsiders perspective it appears to be a selective concern over security and thus give the impression that it is protectionism masquerading as national security.





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  #2136354 29-Nov-2018 01:52

michaelmurfy:

 

coffeebaron: GCSB has Huawei kit in for testing. Dang! We can't hack this equipment, it's too secure. How will we spy on our own people? OK order the directive to ban it, it is indeed a threat to national security.

 

Just as I was thinking.

 

Huawei's spying is just a conspiracy unless if 5 eyes actually publish evidence. I'm more thinking they don't have any backdoors to the GCSB and thus they're forcing telco's to use other equipment that does. This, in itself is a conspiracy also but does also make sense. Huawei equipment is already in use here in NZ so the "threat" is already there if there was ever one to begin with.

 

 

I'd throw in another idea.. exemption from some of Trump's trade war tariffs.

 

That would also link to claims of 'national security'.

 

But, I want evidence too.


 
 
 

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  #2136362 29-Nov-2018 06:25
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michaelmurfy:

coffeebaron: GCSB has Huawei kit in for testing. Dang! We can't hack this equipment, it's too secure. How will we spy on our own people? OK order the directive to ban it, it is indeed a threat to national security.


Just as I was thinking.


Huawei's spying is just a conspiracy unless if 5 eyes actually publish evidence. I'm more thinking they don't have any backdoors to the GCSB and thus they're forcing telco's to use other equipment that does. This, in itself is a conspiracy also but does also make sense. Huawei equipment is already in use here in NZ so the "threat" is already there if there was ever one to begin with.


I'm smelling BS on this thread. The equipment already supports Lawful Intercept as that is part of the standard and is how all Telcos must comply with a legal inception requests under TICSA from government agencies such as Police or GCSB. But that is all handled by the internal LI team then only the particular individual under surveillance gets pumped through to the spooks over a private network. It's not like the spooks have a direct tap into any/all Telcos network (that the Telco knows about) and can listen in/mirror anyone's internet whenever they want to Court Orders signed off by a judge and then actioned by Telco staff.
I think people have been watching a bit too much TV.

ResponseMediaNZ
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  #2136371 29-Nov-2018 07:01
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https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/377048/minister-gcsb-decision-about-risk-assessment-not-china < This is why we don't let politicians run our telco networks..

 

"It's not about the supplier necessarily it's about the technology they wish to introduce, the nature of it, which is different to technology currently used in our telecommunications networks." 

and

"The conventional [3G and 4G] technology has an infrastructure core and then peripheral technology such as cellphone towers and the like and they can - in effect - be kept separate, you cannot do that with 5G technology," Mr Little said.

-
It is looking like this has nothing to do with technology and everything to do with the geopolitical climate we are in right now


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  #2136381 29-Nov-2018 07:35
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Well I guess if there is no 5g I won't have to upgrade my phone just to get a signal

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  #2136382 29-Nov-2018 07:36
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BarTender:

 

I still think a malicious government funded actor within the organisation is a far more likely scenario than a particular back-door in the equipment.

 

 

Totally agree. Why muck around with hiding backdoors in code and funneling data across the internet, sneaking through IDS and firewalls when you can swap a brown envelope for a backup tape.

 

 








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  #2136384 29-Nov-2018 07:37
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ResponseMediaNZ:

 

https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/377048/minister-gcsb-decision-about-risk-assessment-not-china < This is why we don't let politicians run our telco networks..

 

"It's not about the supplier necessarily it's about the technology they wish to introduce, the nature of it, which is different to technology currently used in our telecommunications networks." 

and

"The conventional [3G and 4G] technology has an infrastructure core and then peripheral technology such as cellphone towers and the like and they can - in effect - be kept separate, you cannot do that with 5G technology," Mr Little said.

-
It is looking like this has nothing to do with technology and everything to do with the geopolitical climate we are in right now

 

 

Well wasn't that a terrible interview with Andrew Little.

 

 

It does sound very much like there isn't ANY 5G on the horizon for any mobile provider in NZ. So we will just need to wait for 6G right? Or 4G will see us right for some time to come.undecided


 
 
 

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MikeB4
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  #2136385 29-Nov-2018 07:37
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I am enjoying the conspiracy theories that are attempting to explain or counter the GCSB conspiracy.





Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.


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  #2136391 29-Nov-2018 07:56
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MikeB4:

 

I am enjoying the conspiracy theories that are attempting to explain or counter the GCSB conspiracy.

 

 

My main point is either Huawei is good or it's bad. If they are bad then ALL Huawei gear should be removed (Spark 4G, 2D, UFB from Enable and UFF, Consumer CPE HG659's etc and Mobile phones) since if you can't trust the latest batch of gear what gives you any faith that the existing gear isn't bad.

 

Otherwise if it's technology related then there will be no 5G for NZ as the technology is all bad.

 

I suspect the GCSB issue is in relation to the former and is the results of analysis from AU as to why they rejected Huawei. But I suspect it's because everyone is too afraid to come out and be public using the guise of "National Security" because it will impact NZ's economy as China is NZ's largest trading partner.

 

Fun times ahead.


MikeB4
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  #2136392 29-Nov-2018 08:02
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Huawei are not the only player on the pitch.





Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.


Lias
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  #2136402 29-Nov-2018 08:39
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Worth noting for anyone who thinks this is just kowtowing to Trump or is part of the current US <-> China trade war, that the US has had security concerns about Huawei and ZTE at least a decade ago and these were shared by the Bush and Obama governments. Yes, things have gotten a bit more vocal under the Trump administration, but the security concerns predate him by many years, the earliest references I could find in were Huawei being blocked from buying 3com in 2008 (Bush), and blocked from building networks in the US in 2010 & 2011 (Obama) all on national security grounds. Those concerns have continued unabated since, right through the Obama and Trump administrations.

 

Now maybe it is a beat up job, and I'm generally a bit loathe to trust the US, but to me it's a bit like climate change. I don't personally understand the science behind climate change, so I have to trust those that do. With intelligence/national security matters, we're never going to see the evidence and have to take things even more on faith. When the Bush, Obama, and Trump administrations all agree on something, I tend to give it some credence as generally they wouldn't even agree the sky is blue.  

 

 





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