Telecom Takes UFB Priority

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123 posts

Master Geek

#417111 14-Dec-2010 15:13

Do you know what /jest means at all?

PS: I think it's great that Telecom has this. Haters aside ...

robjg63

4098 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#417117 14-Dec-2010 15:26

freitasm:
exportgoldman:
richms: Better telecom than the power company if you want a reliable network IMO.

Well, actually I wish my telco was as reliable as my power supply.

Unless you live in Auckland, I guess?

Got that right - the lights go out more than the phone!

Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler

robjg63

4098 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#417119 14-Dec-2010 15:29

Actually I think its great that Telecom may get it - its one of the largest employers in NZ.

At least most of the work will go to people who live here!

Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler

DonGould

3892 posts

Uber Geek

#417146 14-Dec-2010 16:46

robjg63: Actually I think its great that Telecom may get it - its one of the largest employers in NZ.

At least most of the work will go to people who live here!

I think that having a range of layer 1 employers around the country will be much better for Kiwi geeks.

Having a range of places that you can work for is always better than only a limited large few in my view.

I agree it's not as good for the empire builders and I even read talk that the current ceo.t.nz may look at leaving once t.nz becomes tr.nz & tw.nz as neither co will be the empire it once was.

.nz is built on small business. One large telco just doesn't fit the culture if you ask me.

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sothereiwas

12 posts

Geek

#417221 14-Dec-2010 19:39

DonGould:
robjg63: Actually I think its great that Telecom may get it - its one of the largest employers in NZ.

At least most of the work will go to people who live here!

I think that having a range of layer 1 employers around the country will be much better for Kiwi geeks.?

Having a range of places that you can work for is always better than only a limited large few in my view.

I agree it's not as good for the empire builders and I even read talk that the current ceo.t.nz may look at leaving once t.nz becomes tr.nz & tw.nz as neither co will be the empire it once was.

.nz is built on small business.? One large telco just doesn't fit the culture if you ask me.

IMHO while it is true that .nz is SME and that IS the culture, the problem this creates is lack of scale to do BIG things economically - and UFB is a big thing. To get the economics to work for .nz we should avoid replication of core network and we should also be able to easily do a consistent service delivery anywhere in the country. I can't see how that can be done efficiently with multiple network providers on different billing, provisioning and support systems. Choose one national provider, make it open access, get the oversight and governance right and it will work.

matt45

311 posts

Ultimate Geek

#417223 14-Dec-2010 19:42

IMHO while it is true that .nz is SME and that IS the culture, the problem this creates is lack of scale to do BIG things economically - and UFB is a big thing. To get the economics to work for .nz we should avoid replication of core network and we should also be able to easily do a consistent service delivery anywhere in the country. I can't see how that can be done efficiently with multiple network providers on different billing, provisioning and support systems. Choose one national provider, make it open access, get the oversight and governance right and it will work.

DonGould

3892 posts

Uber Geek

#417225 14-Dec-2010 19:51

sothereiwas: IMHO while it is true that .nz is SME and that IS the culture, the problem this creates is lack of scale to do BIG things economically - and UFB is a big thing. To get the economics to work for .nz we should avoid replication of core network and we should also be able to easily do a consistent service delivery anywhere in the country. I can't see how that can be done efficiently with multiple network providers on different billing, provisioning and support systems. Choose one national provider, make it open access, get the oversight and governance right and it will work.

Power rant of an empire builder. No offense to the poster intended (I don't know him from a bar of soap :) ), I've been reading posts like this one for over a decade and have long since formed the view that it's just bonkers talk in favour of building empires.

The reason we write standards is so that decentralised systems can just talk to each other and work as a unified system - look at IP as one of the best examples.

On the other hand, look at the wonderful ERX upgrade that tc.nz did a few months back! One unified system that a single component failed in and took out 14,000 connections for up to days with a recovery rate of 500/hour.

Then have a look at the recent XT disaster that was caused by the failure of a single unified box in Christchurch that took out half the network that, aiui has not been replaced with 3 boxes.

Going back a decade look at the shasta disaster in .au that eventually lead to them completely redesigning how their dsl network ran, moving from l3 to l2 tunnels.

Giving this UBF gig to a bunch of guys who are not in the retail market and all in separate geographic areas with local teams dedicated to looking after conditions in each area makes perfect senes to me. It's why the net has done so well todate!

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PerryNZ

44 posts

Geek
Inactive user

#417226 14-Dec-2010 19:52

matt45: Choose one national provider, make it open access, get the oversight and governance right and it will work.

What the Rogergnomes should've
done in the first place when they
hocked off the NZ Post Office's
"cash cow."

DonGould

3892 posts

Uber Geek

#417227 14-Dec-2010 19:55

Further, now that t.nz has done fttn it seems to be that it would be in consumer interest to keep t.nz powering the copper while a bunch of others do fibre and then letting t.nz over build their own fibre where they want to.

The more layer 1 comp in the market the better things get for consumers with providers working hard to keep pushing more and more 1's and 0's in to the network all the time and up grading to more and more newer and better technology.

It's working in the computer industry for decades!

Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz

DonGould

3892 posts

Uber Geek

#417228 14-Dec-2010 19:57

PerryNZ:
matt45: Choose one national provider, make it open access, get the oversight and governance right and it will work.

What the Rogergnomes should've
done in the first place when they
hocked off the NZ Post Office's
"cash cow."

Yip, a dozen co's would have made really good sense! The market is more than big enough to support 12 cos in wholesale, network and retail - 4 at each level... seems to be adding some value in the power area?

Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz

sudo

391 posts

Ultimate Geek

#417235 14-Dec-2010 20:07

Choose one national provider, make it open access, get the oversight and governance right and it will work.

Still sounds like a managed monopoly.

If there is money to be made, then there will be high price consultants employed to work out loopholes to the national providers advantage.

DonGould

3892 posts

Uber Geek

#417237 14-Dec-2010 20:10

How many councils are there in .nz?

Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz

Beccara

1469 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

#417242 14-Dec-2010 20:26

We had a national provider, We tried to put in as much govt oversight as we could so this is where we are at now.
12 or 33 LFC's makes no difference to the consumer as thats the ISP's role to work with them all not the end user, the ISP will still have to backhaul but the difference is now they have a choice, Kordia gives a good price for Northland-Auckland but maybe FX do better from somewhere else to somewhere else etc etc

Telecom's earned it's bad rap and in Northland atleast NorthPower is a community trust who's goals are not profit driven. As someone else pointed out, There will be alot of highly paid people in Telecom how to screw over the intention of the UFB and give Telecom an advantage over other ISP's

sothereiwas

12 posts

Geek

#417243 14-Dec-2010 20:27

DonGould:
PerryNZ:
matt45: Choose one national provider, make it open access, get the oversight and governance right and it will work.

What the Rogergnomes should've
done in the first place when they
hocked off the NZ Post Office's
"cash cow."

Yip, a dozen co's would have made really good sense!? The market is more than big enough to support 12 cos in wholesale, network and retail - 4 at each level... seems to be adding some value in the power area?

Our market is tiny and very expensive to cover due to the tyranny of distance and mountains! That is fact. Theoretical free market models struggle with core utility services in this environment. UFB is simply a plan to deliver a basic utility in a fair and consistent way to the nation. If .nz gets it right, it will simply be to the consumer like getting access to an efficient road network. Build the core network per my earlier post, and let the market decide who the best service companies are. In theory this should have worked for power - but actually, the .nz model actually increased prices!!! That is probably a subject for another forum, but who seriously thinks it is ok to have power generation companies making super profits by exploiting .nz's natural resources? IMHO the power market should be a similar model to the UFB model - a National provide acting in the public interest serving service providers operating in an open market. Best of both worlds.

sothereiwas

12 posts

Geek

#417244 14-Dec-2010 20:30

DonGould: How many councils are there in .nz?

87 ish I think

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