Android Mobile Software Update FAQ

Forums › Spark New Zealand (including Skinny and BigPipe) › Android Mobile Software Update FAQ

KiwiTT

122 posts

Master Geek

#107014 5-Aug-2012 07:27

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/TelecomTech/8182

Seems strange that Apple is trusted and Android (Google) is not.

This seems to be the final nail in the coffin for Android as a possible 'Smartphone' for me. Looks like I'll get the iPhone 5 (new iPhone) when it comes out soon.

1 | 2 | 3

2225 posts

Uber Geek

#667688 5-Aug-2012 09:00

Or is it that Apple give you the Henry Ford - any colour as long as it is black methodology and Android based HW manufacturers offer a more custom solution, (i.e. specific modems and apps etc for specific carriers?)

Personally, the approach I have taken is to load a debranded rom on my phone that by history has always got any OTA updates soon after Samsung releases them cutting out the whole carrier approval delay

sbiddle

30853 posts

Uber Geek

Retired Mod

Trusted

Biddle Corp

Lifetime subscriber

#667704 5-Aug-2012 10:14

The Apple model is far from perfect.

Sure your OS gets updated, but what happens when Apple release new software and is bricks mobile networks around the world? This has happened in the past, and I'm sure will continue to do so with Apple's poor track record of their handling of network signalling in iOS and full 3GPP compliance. When this happens networks are hamstrung - they can't go and dump every iOS device off their network, although I'm sure in several instances in the past they would have loved to have done so.

hellonearthisman

1819 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#667705 5-Aug-2012 10:17

I guess Telecom like to keep there Network working well and if there is an update that is complex or doesn't work well for the dumbest users then nobody gets it. I think Telecom like to keep things simple for the helpdesk and so limiting the number of updates helps there as there staff doesn't need updated training.

A bit like, you have a hammer and nail that does the job, why would you want a screw driver and screws.

Like Wade says, get the updates from the phones provider if you can, they are the ones that build it after all, Telecom is just the standard network it runs on.

Dingbatt

6755 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#667712 5-Aug-2012 10:36

hellonearthisman: I guess Telecom like to keep there Network working well and if there is an update that is complex or doesn't work well for the dumbest users then nobody gets it. I think Telecom like to keep things simple for the helpdesk and so limiting the number of updates helps there as there staff doesn't need updated training.

A bit like, you have a hammer and nail that does the job, why would you want a screw driver and screws.

Like Wade says, get the updates from the phones provider if you can, they are the ones that build it after all, Telecom is just the standard network it runs on.

I would love to get my updates directly from HTC. If Telecom could arrange to release my imei so I could do that without having to unlock, root, install a custom recovery and load a ROM that would be great.

Edit: And as for their helpdesk, they can't cope now and are worse than useless, I can't see how multiple updates could make them any worse than they already are!

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
79257 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#667713 5-Aug-2012 10:39

hellonearthisman: Like Wade says, get the updates from the phones provider if you can, they are the ones that build it after all, Telecom is just the standard network it runs on.

Then you have settings like Dormancy, which is used by one network in New Zealand but not the other one. You install a non-branded ROM, or a third-party ROM with the wrong settings, and your battery goes the way of the dodo. Are you going to blame the operator, the manufacturer or yourself who decided to install something without knowing exactly is happening behind the scenes?

Dingbatt

6755 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#667714 5-Aug-2012 10:46

freitasm:
hellonearthisman:?Like Wade says, get the updates from the phones provider if you can, they are the ones that build it after all, Telecom is just the standard network it runs on.

Then you have settings like Dormancy, which is used by one network in New Zealand but not the other one. You install a non-branded ROM, or a third-party ROM with the wrong settings, and your battery goes the way of the dodo. Are you going to blame the operator, the manufacturer or yourself who decided to install something without knowing exactly is happening behind the scenes?

Yep, I agree with the fast dormancy argument, but ROM cooks are able to put a toggle in their ROMs, so how long does it take for TNZ to do the same. Or edit one line in the modem software to change the =1 to an =0. And are there any other networks in the world that don't use fast dormancy that have the same abysmally tardy update history as TNZ?

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

lokhor

2858 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#667715 5-Aug-2012 10:57

It might also be time for telecom to consider supporting fast dormancy

All comments are my own opinion, and not that of my employer unless explicitly stated.

Equinox IT

Cloud spending continues to surge globally, but most organisations haven’t made the changes necessary to maximise the value and cost-efficiency benefits of their cloud investments. Download the whitepaper From Overspend to Advantage now.

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
79257 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#667719 5-Aug-2012 11:06

Dingbatt:
freitasm:
hellonearthisman:?Like Wade says, get the updates from the phones provider if you can, they are the ones that build it after all, Telecom is just the standard network it runs on.

Then you have settings like Dormancy, which is used by one network in New Zealand but not the other one. You install a non-branded ROM, or a third-party ROM with the wrong settings, and your battery goes the way of the dodo. Are you going to blame the operator, the manufacturer or yourself who decided to install something without knowing exactly is happening behind the scenes?

Yep, I agree with the fast dormancy argument, but ROM cooks are able to put a toggle in their ROMs, so how long does it take for TNZ to do the same. Or edit one line in the modem software to change the =1 to an =0. And are there any other networks in the world that don't use fast dormancy that have the same abysmally tardy update history as TNZ?

It would be great if it was supported, but at the end of the day the number of people who install ROMs is small compared to those who just want a phone to check email, Twitter. And the number of people who install ROMs and know that there are settings to be adjusted is even smaller.

If you know how to do it, go for it.

KiwiTT

122 posts

Master Geek

#667730 5-Aug-2012 11:29

Wade: Or is it that Apple give you the Henry Ford - any colour as long as it is black methodology and Android based HW manufacturers offer a more custom solution, (i.e. specific modems and apps etc for specific carriers?)

Actually the way I see it, Apple makes a "Rolls-Royce" and the rest are the "mass-market" options. Sure you can get cars with better features than a "Rolls Royce", faster (Audi), better engines (Mercedes), better transmissions (Lexus), better, this and that (others). But with a Rolls-Royce, you just know it has "quality", which is very hard to define, but you know it is there. It just does what it does very well.

Plus the fact the Android handset manufacturers stop giving software updates, after about a year or so after the phone is released. However, just like cars (after the recalls have stopped, and warranty has expired), you can still custROMize it.

jeffnz

2870 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#667731 5-Aug-2012 11:30

I replied to this in the blog albeit didn't spell check. Kiwitt have you ever owned an android phone or are you just looking for reasons to justify buying iphone?

Apple only have to release updates to their own phones and google release an open source so manufacturers can use on their phones, very much different so you can't compare them.

I hope Apple release an exceptional Iphone 5 as it will mean that android manufacturers have to step up, the result will be good for consumers whatever happens.

Galaxy S10

Garmin Fenix 5

Dingbatt

6755 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#667744 5-Aug-2012 12:09

freitasm:
Dingbatt:
freitasm:
hellonearthisman:?Like Wade says, get the updates from the phones provider if you can, they are the ones that build it after all, Telecom is just the standard network it runs on.

Then you have settings like Dormancy, which is used by one network in New Zealand but not the other one. You install a non-branded ROM, or a third-party ROM with the wrong settings, and your battery goes the way of the dodo. Are you going to blame the operator, the manufacturer or yourself who decided to install something without knowing exactly is happening behind the scenes?

Yep, I agree with the fast dormancy argument, but ROM cooks are able to put a toggle in their ROMs, so how long does it take for TNZ to do the same. Or edit one line in the modem software to change the =1 to an =0. And are there any other networks in the world that don't use fast dormancy that have the same abysmally tardy update history as TNZ?

It would be great if it was supported, but at the end of the day the number of people who install ROMs is small compared to those who just want a phone to check email, Twitter. And the number of people who install ROMs and know that there are settings to be adjusted is even smaller.

If you know how to do it, go for it.

I don't want to have to do it. I want TNZ to do it. My point is if ROM cooks can change one line of code why does it take TNZ months to do it and test it.
The two firmware updates that my One X is missing have reportedly reduced force closes, stopped screen flicker and improved battery life. I am sure that even the people who only have their smartphones to check email and do facebook and twitter would appreciate a battery that can last a whole day.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

Talkiet

4792 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#667766 5-Aug-2012 13:07

Dingbatt: [snip]

I don't want to have to do it. I want TNZ to do it. My point is if ROM cooks can change one line of code why does it take TNZ months to do it and test it.
The two firmware updates that my One X is missing have reportedly reduced force closes, stopped screen flicker and improved battery life. I am sure that even the people who only have their smartphones to check email and do facebook and twitter would appreciate a battery that can last a whole day.

Please ignore the fact I work for Telecom. I work in the fixed space, not mobile so I'm only going from my experience as a user in this case...

ROM cooks can do it quick because they have exactly zero responsibility. I have personal experience with several ROMs (from xda etc) on an old HTC Desire that broke many features including SMS and MMS.

I now have a personal SGS3 (purchased from Harvey Norman) and while I have rooted it so I can continue to use Titanium backup, I have left the default ROM image on it.

Cheers N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

Dingbatt

6755 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#667805 5-Aug-2012 15:47

Talkiet:
Dingbatt: [snip]

I don't want to have to do it. I want TNZ to do it. My point is if ROM cooks can change one line of code why does it take TNZ months to do it and test it.
The two firmware updates that my One X is missing have reportedly reduced force closes, stopped screen flicker and improved battery life. I am sure that even the people who only have their smartphones to check email and do facebook and twitter would appreciate a battery that can last a whole day.

Please ignore the fact I work for Telecom. I work in the fixed space, not mobile so I'm only going from my experience as a user in this case...

ROM cooks can do it quick because they have exactly zero responsibility. I have personal experience with several ROMs (from xda etc) on an old HTC Desire that broke many features including SMS and MMS.

I now have a personal SGS3 (purchased from Harvey Norman) and while I have rooted it so I can continue to use Titanium backup, I have left the default ROM image on it.

Cheers? N

I appreciate what you are saying. And envy the fact that you can simply root your S3 without putting your hand up to say "please void my warranty" by having to go through htcdev. My gripe is it shouldn't take 100 days to modify (to suit the network) and test firmware used around the world that essentially just contains bug-fixes.
I am glad you bring up the subject of responsibilty though. My phone is a high end handset, the latest generation in fact, I believe Telecom has a responsibility to me as user to keep my phone up to date. Or at the very least communicate that the later versions of the firmware are not stable on their network.
The ultimate denial is contacting Telecom's helpline to be told it is HTC's fault.....

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

joff_nz

446 posts

Ultimate Geek

#667841 5-Aug-2012 16:53

1. What makes you/people think Telecom/insert network provider has the responsibility to upgrade your software after purchase? Given their track record I certainly wouldn't expect updates to be free flowing when purchasing from Telecom directly.

2. In the blog post they state " We have never held back an available update for any other reason than the release failed our testing programme and the manufacturer was unable to resolve this. This would have translated into a substandard customer experience." However it wouldn't really be appropriate commercially for them to say publicly what is or isn't working, that's really between them and the OEM / Google. But if you're wondering why any particular update is taking a while then reading between the lines of the above excerpt makes it pretty clear to me.

sbiddle

30853 posts

Uber Geek

Retired Mod

Trusted

Biddle Corp

Lifetime subscriber

#667857 5-Aug-2012 17:16

One thing that a lot of you are forgetting is that the Android model of mobile carriers approving software before it's released is nothing new - it is the same model that's been in use since the late 90's. I recall BellSouth even launching an Ericsson phone one weekend that didn't work with their network and resulted in them having to recall 5000 odd phones in the weeks following.

Ever since manufacturers started making software updates available to end users it's always required carriers to approve this first. With Nokia phones for example you'd often find it could take months for updates to appear in some markets, hence the popularity of changing product codes. Even before OTA and downloadable end users updates were available software testing was done before new software was even made available to service agents.

1 | 2 | 3