My Illusions of Number Portability...

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nzgadgetman

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Topic # 13213 28-Apr-2007 13:03

So I'm after some guidance here I guess...

My (apparently misguided) understanding of number portability is that it came in on the 1st of this month (April) and allowed you to take you home number to any provider, or connect it to any exchange within the same local calling area.

At this stage I'm thinking GREAT! Finally I can have caller display without changing my number! So I call up Mr T (telecom), and they inform me that it costs $2.50 per month and it'll be on in 4 hours. Neat-o! Then 5 minutes later I get a call back. "I'm sorry Sir, it appears your exchange is too old and doesn't support caller display". Grrr, not this again...

So I launch into my understanding of number portability, and she says she'll need to transfer me to someone who can help me. I then talk to this guy who says yep, number portability is definately in, but no, my number is about as portable as my a*se on a Sunday afternoon... and if I want caller display, I can have it, but I have to change my number!

At this stage I'm thinking stuff it... change my number, get my current number CustomerLink'd and then move it to a VoIP provider...

But anyway, your views on what number portability really means would be appreciated.

Regards,
Ben.

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Reply # 68749 28-Apr-2007 13:42

NP is about moving to another provider and being able to take the existing telephone number with you. It does not mean a provider will "port" it to another exchange.

Actually, if you move from Wellington to Auckland you won't be able to keep the 04 number when moving to that area - either with the same or another provider.

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maverick

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Reply # 68751 28-Apr-2007 13:54

Hi Ben

Yes number portability is in from 1st of April and you can take your number with you to any provider it's actually working pretty well we have done anumber of ports so far with very few problems, your problem I'm afraid is that the Exchange you are on does not support the service you want , there are a number of Telecom Exchanges that have limited IN (Intelligent Network) services Call Minder, Caller ID etc and which you are effected by, they also won't be upgrading these exchanges either what will happen is that they will be replaced by their Next Generation services VOIP capable, when these will be available unsure have to ask Telecom that

, basically they are not going to spend money on upgrading old exchanges when they will be replacing them in the not to distance future...the old rock and and hard situation I'm afraid.

For caller Id your option would be to get a second line put your DSL on that and port your wanted number to a VOIP Provider (VFX is our Company and we can certainly assist here...bit of plug I know) you have to get that second line in first as to maintain your current ADSL

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nzgadgetman

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Reply # 68752 28-Apr-2007 13:56

Yes I realised you couldn't move it outside of the local calling area - but it was my impression that, say, if you moved from one side of Wellington to the other (different exchanges) that you'd be able to keep the same number? Thats all I wanted to do, move exchanges to one that has the caller display functionality...

nzgadgetman

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Reply # 68753 28-Apr-2007 14:01

maverick: For caller Id your option would be to get a second line put your DSL on that and port your wanted number to a VOIP Provider (VFX is our Company and we can certainly assist here...bit of plug I know) you have to get that second line in first as to maintain your current ADSL

Would I not be able to do what I said? Change my number on my primary line, and CustomerLink my current number, then port that number to VFX - hence keeping my DSL on the primary number (not having to get a secondary phone line) and keeping my current number as a DID for VoIP...? But thats by-the-by until you guys support asterisk on a home-level anyway :P (I currently run Trixbox with a [tonyhuges' old] SPA3102 to the PSTN network)

sbiddle

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Reply # 68758 28-Apr-2007 14:37

nzgadgetman: Yes I realised you couldn't move it outside of the local calling area - but it was my impression that, say, if you moved from one side of Wellington to the other (different exchanges) that you'd be able to keep the same number? Thats all I wanted to do, move exchanges to one that has the caller display functionality...

That's exactly how it works. The problem is that the NZPO purchased great Japanese technology before the Japanese became great at building electronics stuff that worked! :-)

You're one of a small number of customers on an old original NEAX switch that doesn't support number portability or many of the smart phone services. There is no way your number can presently be ported off that exchange to either another provider or another Telecom exchange.

nzgadgetman

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Reply # 68760 28-Apr-2007 14:42

Oh excellent. Oh well, guess I should make the change in number now to a number that is portable for the future then (and that will also allow me to get caller display!).

Thanks for that :)

maverick

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Reply # 68766 28-Apr-2007 15:59

nzgadgetman:
maverick: For caller Id your option would be to get a second line put your DSL on that and port your wanted number to a VOIP Provider (VFX is our Company and we can certainly assist here...bit of plug I know) you have to get that second line in first as to maintain your current ADSL

Would I not be able to do what I said? Change my number on my primary line, and CustomerLink my current number, then port that number to VFX - hence keeping my DSL on the primary number (not having to get a secondary phone line) and keeping my current number as a DID for VoIP...? But thats by-the-by until you guys support asterisk on a home-level anyway :P (I currently run Trixbox with a [tonyhuges' old] SPA3102 to the PSTN network)

Argh sorry Misread :)...yep sounds good to me, you can front your Trix Box with the 3102 on VFX as I believe Tony has done and written a nice a instruction on how too as well

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steve98

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Reply # 69414 3-May-2007 14:21

sbiddle:
nzgadgetman: Yes I realised you couldn't move it outside of the local calling area - but it was my impression that, say, if you moved from one side of Wellington to the other (different exchanges) that you'd be able to keep the same number? Thats all I wanted to do, move exchanges to one that has the caller display functionality...

That's exactly how it works. The problem is that the NZPO purchased great Japanese technology before the Japanese became great at building electronics stuff that worked! :-)

You're one of a small number of customers on an old original NEAX switch that doesn't support number portability or many of the smart phone services. There is no way your number can presently be ported off that exchange to either another provider or another Telecom exchange.

Hmmm sorry sbiddle I feel the need to clarify here... that's not exactly how number portability works. What nzgadgetman is saying is that he thought NP meant he could stay with the same provider, but switch his number so that he is somehow connected to a different exchange on the same network, keeping the same number, so as to take advantages of the services at that particular exchange.

NP is ONLY a service for switching service providers, it does not suddenly undo all the normal rules regarding the geographic location of a phone number. If the copper lines from a building terminate to one exchange, there is no service that is suddenly going to physically connect it to a different one - that is what changing exchanges would entail.

NZGadgetman, have you spoken to your service provider about whether changing your home phone number would let you have caller display? Exchanges usually have several 'switches' with different ranges of numbers within them. Often, you can be connected to a switch that does not have many of the smart phone services, but there may be another switch available on the exchange which DOES have those services. All it would require is a change of number.

nzgadgetman

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Reply # 69418 3-May-2007 15:08

steve98: NZGadgetman, have you spoken to your service provider about whether changing your home phone number would let you have caller display? Exchanges usually have several 'switches' with different ranges of numbers within them. Often, you can be connected to a switch that does not have many of the smart phone services, but there may be another switch available on the exchange which DOES have those services. All it would require is a change of number.

Yes I have and thats the problem, I was hoping to be able to change to a switch (ok this is telephone terminology I didn't understand) within my exchange which supports CID, while retaining my number... Anyway I see now that this isn't possible. Thanks for the further clarification though :)

timestyles

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Reply # 69433 3-May-2007 19:17

I have almost the exact same problem here in Christchurch. I want to move and keep my number. Who doesn't? Telecom said that they do not provide this service, and will not for who knows how long, as the knowledgeable person has said earlier in the thread regarding the new type of exchange. My guess would be 10-20 years. I still remember the old physical exchanges with their moving levers etc in 1987 (Auckland central), 40 years after the invention of the transistor.

I am fortunate that I currently have a TelstraClear number, but I am moving to a non-TelstraClear suburb. So I can use call forwarding at a cost of $30 a month for who knows how long, or get a new number.

I'll phone about it tomorrow but does anyone know if TelstraClear supports number portability in terms of offering a service when someone comes into their network? Ie a person has a telecom number, and gets to keep it on TelstraClears network? I don't mind changing numbers once, but that's it I think.

I could go VoIP, and I have looked at the Xnet website as given earlier. However, it does not seem to have anything about whether number portability is actually supported by this ie someone phones 'my' TelstraClear number and the phone in my house rings when I am with Xnet. If someone could say whether they can do this, it would be much appreciated.

VoIP has 2 issues I am not crazy about: first, the use of data cap allocation. I'm on 5GB currently, can anyone please tell me how long this is in terms of talk time? Yes, I know that Xnet does not include talk time but I've just joined Orcon and got a discounted modem, so that means I have to pay a disconnection fee.

The other is my broadband modem: it needs to be reset (switched off then on again) about once every 10 days. So what happens if someone phones my number on VoIP and the modem doesn't answer?

Thanks for any help. I hope I have not hijacked the thread from the thread starter, but these seem such basic issues - computers have been around for so long, but it seems that exchanges have not yet managed to be configurable to even a basic degree.

grant_k

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Reply # 69450 3-May-2007 21:03

timestyles: I'll phone about it tomorrow but does anyone know if TelstraClear supports number portability in terms of offering a service when someone comes into their network? Ie a person has a telecom number, and gets to keep it on TelstraClears network?

Your post is a bit confusing...

First you say you are "moving to a non-TelstraClear suburb" then you say "does anyone know if TelstraClear supports number portability... ...when someone comes into their network?"

All telcos are required to comply with customer Port Out requests in accordance with the Number Portability rules. This means that if you have an existing number with Telco A and want to move it to Telco B, Telco A is required to release it. However, there is nothing in the rules that requires Telco B to accept a Port In request. You would think it strange that any Telco would want to refuse such a request -- and thus turn away business -- but apparently it is the case with Callplus' iTalk service. They do not want to Port In numbers from other Telcos onto the iTalk service. At least, that was what someone posted last month, I don't know if it is still the case.

So how does this help in your case?

Well, it means that TelstraClear MUST release your number to another Telco if you request it. In your case, I would imagine you would want Telecom to take control of your existing number, given that you are moving to a "non TelstraClear suburb".

However, I'm not sure whether Telecom will accept Port In requests for landline numbers. You would need to check with them.

timestyles: I could go VoIP, and I have looked at the Xnet website as given earlier. However, it does not seem to have anything about whether number portability is actually supported by this ie someone phones 'my' TelstraClear number and the phone in my house rings when I am with Xnet. If someone could say whether they can do this, it would be much appreciated.

YES, I can confirm absolutely that this will work. In fact, you don't even have to use Xnet as your ISP, you just need to sign up for VFX.

timestyles: VoIP has 2 issues I am not crazy about: first, the use of data cap allocation. I'm on 5GB currently, can anyone please tell me how long this is in terms of talk time?

You will use about 35MB per hour of talk time with VFX.

timestyles: Yes, I know that Xnet does not include talk time but I've just joined Orcon and got a discounted modem, so that means I have to pay a disconnection fee.

Actually, it's not talk time that isn't counted with Xnet, it's LOCAL TRAFFIC which includes any access to Xnet's servers, including your e-mail account and also VFX.

timestyles: The other is my broadband modem: it needs to be reset (switched off then on again) about once every 10 days. So what happens if someone phones my number on VoIP and the modem doesn't answer?

Yes, well that would be a problem...

Given that you are moving away from TelstraClear's network, I would have thought you would be up for a new modem anyway -- or were you using TelstraClear ADSL instead of their cable network?

Either way, I suggest you get a new modem, and for heaven's sake, DON'T buy a D-Link. They are crap as many people here on Geekzone will tell you.

* Mauricio recommends Belkin.
* I have had a good run with 3Com and ZyXEL.
* Linksys is another good brand which lets you buy an ADSL modem, Wireless router and VFX-compatible VoIP ports all in the one box. Definitely worth a look if you're thinking of using VFX for your phone service.

Well, I hope that has cleared up a few questions for you.

Cheers,
Grant.

sbiddle

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Reply # 69452 3-May-2007 21:07

Grant17:
All telcos are required to comply with customer Port Out requests in accordance with the Number Portability rules. This means that if you have an existing number with Telco A and want to move it to Telco B, Telco A is required to release it. However, there is nothing in the rules that requires Telco B to accept a Port In request. You would think it strange that any Telco would want to refuse such a request -- and thus turn away business -- but apparently it is the case with Callplus' iTalk service. They do not want to Port In numbers from other Telcos onto the iTalk service. At least, that was what someone posted last month, I don't know if it is still the case.

Reading the iTalk forums they do support porting however their timeframe seems a bit of a joke!

timestyles

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Reply # 69483 4-May-2007 05:32

Grant17:
Given that you are moving away from TelstraClear's network, I would have thought you would be up for a new modem anyway -- or were you using TelstraClear ADSL instead of their cable network?

Either way, I suggest you get a new modem, and for heaven's sake, DON'T buy a D-Link. They are crap as many people here on Geekzone will tell you.

* Mauricio recommends Belkin.
* I have had a good run with 3Com and ZyXEL.
* Linksys is another good brand which lets you buy an ADSL modem, Wireless router and VFX-compatible VoIP ports all in the one box. Definitely worth a look if you're thinking of using VFX for your phone service.

Well, I hope that has cleared up a few questions for you.

Cheers,
Grant.

Yes, thanks that has helped a lot. Any recommendations on where to buy the required hardware (probably the Linksys as per Xnets page) would be most appreciated.

Bung

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Reply # 69493 4-May-2007 08:45

sbiddle: That's exactly how it works. The problem is that the NZPO purchased great Japanese technology before the Japanese became great at building electronics stuff that worked! :-)

You're one of a small number of customers on an old original NEAX switch that doesn't support number portability or many of the smart phone services. There is no way your number can presently be ported off that exchange to either another provider or another Telecom exchange.

The "great Japanese technology" did what it was designed to do at the time, if it didn't work we wouldn't still be inflicted with it 25 years later. Some of the later smart phone services were the result of a local software development joint venture with NEC and Telecom.

The numbers on the earliest NEAXs may be small in relative terms but there's still plenty when you consider the number ranges involved.

grant_k

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Reply # 69494 4-May-2007 08:51

timestyles: Any recommendations on where to buy the required hardware (probably the Linksys as per Xnets page) would be most appreciated.

There's a good list of hardware suppliers here:

http://voipusers.org.nz/wiki/Hardware_Suppliers

Or you can probably find the Linksys devices on Trade Me.

Cheers,
Grant.

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