BigPipe IPv6

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michaelmurfy

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#195194 9-Apr-2016 18:15

So, I am currently using a Tunnelbroker (he.net) to provide IPv6 for the times I need it on my Edgerouter - this is slow (as in, I get high latency and quite slow speeds). I've looked for a solution and there really isn't. 6to4 is considered depreciated and SixXS isn't accepting any new registrations. This has practically forced me to disable IPv6 on my main network and move IPv6 to a secondary SSID on yet another VLAN.

IPv6 is now considered as a must-have in my opinion. I manage all my servers out on the internet with IPv6 and more and more sites are IPv6 ready.

We've talked about IPv6 with BigPipe in the past - it is one of those ongoing discussions but as most tunnelbrokers are encouraging their users to discuss IPv6 options with their ISP I'm now pushing this to BigPipe and really hope that some of the community would join me.

Edit: Whoops after a server migration (moving this server from home to Amazon AWS) I broke the sad kitten / puppy script. IPv6 is on the way however! Thanks guys for your support!

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#1529129 9-Apr-2016 18:22

What if it outputs a broken image on a connection which does have native v6:

I'm fully in support of more v6 deployment amongst NZ ISPs. Also fully in support of open peering. :)

Edit: Apparently I didn't delete the error Cloudflare gave me while trying to view the image directly properly. Also included below for the sake of it:

Error 1011 Ray ID: 290bdb88b1971908 • 2016-04-09 06:21:12 UTC Access denied What happened?

The owner of this website (smokeping.murfy.nz) does not allow hotlinking to that resource (/images/bigpipe_ipv6.jpg).

michaelmurfy

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#1529133 9-Apr-2016 18:26

Doh! Sad kitten should exist now.

Also for peering I am encouraging that too: https://murfy.nz/bigpipe-performance/

NonprayingMantis

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#1529134 9-Apr-2016 18:30

Don't think it's quite as easy as 'flick the switch'

michaelmurfy

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#1529137 9-Apr-2016 18:32

NonprayingMantis: Don't think it's quite as easy as 'flick the switch'

I've done IPv6 deployments before. It really isn't all that difficult and for network engineers with IPv6 as their background it is almost as simple as "flicking a switch".

NonprayingMantis

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#1529146 9-Apr-2016 18:43

Well then why hasn't every single ISP turned it on?

If it is a simple as flicking a switch they could have all done it last Monday instead of getting their coffee. So why haven't they?

Furthermore, if it is as essential as you say it is, why haven't the few ISPs offering it collected 100% of the market?
Neither spark nor Vodafone do IPv6 and they still have around 80% of the market. People don't seem to be leaving in their droves because their ISP doesn't provide them this essential service.

Which are these website that are going IPv6 only?

michaelmurfy

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#1529164 9-Apr-2016 19:18

NonprayingMantis: Well then why hasn't every single ISP turned it on?

If it is a simple as flicking a switch they could have all done it last Monday instead of getting their coffee. So why haven't they?

Furthermore, if it is as essential as you say it is, why haven't the few ISPs offering it collected 100% of the market?
Neither spark nor Vodafone do IPv6 and they still have around 80% of the market. People don't seem to be leaving in their droves because their ISP doesn't provide them this essential service.

Which are these website that are going IPv6 only?

Everything I have is dual stack however I have around 2 VPS's that are V6 only. Yes, I exaggerate on how "essential" it is however it is an excellent tool to have since you can use Cloudflare to host multiple sites off multiple servers via V6 and get it to proxy V4 to end users also. V6 is very easy to enable is all I am getting at.

IPv6 is becoming more and more prominent in the market. For my servers:

Server Name | IPv4 Hits | IPv6 Hits |
Marvin | 47,282 | 18,768 |
Trillian | 28,497 | 20,681|
Zaphod | 11,372 | 2,964 |
Diglett | 2,682 | 974 |

These numbers are not counting web crawlers - Marvin and Trillian have websites hosted that achieve V6 hits from the US, UK and Europe mostly. Diglett is my home web server that has a V6 tunnel. Not everyone knows or cares about IPv6 and it is more a statement of "if it works, it works" but IPv6 is cheap to deploy, supported on pretty-much all routers these days (including end user routers) and essentially all devices on the internet support it so it is more a case of why would you not use it?

With 2x of these servers I pay I believe $2US per month for a couple of IPv4 addresses, I also have a block of /64 assigned to each server (apart from my home one) which gives me a total of 18,446,744,073,709,551,616 IP addresses to play around with per server (very very overkill) but this is also provided for free from each provider as part of the package.

So, with IPv6 addresses being so readily available and BigPipe being primarily a CG-NAT based provider why wouldn't they want to offer IPv6 to their customers?

Brumfondl

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#1529254 9-Apr-2016 21:32

Looks like the last time this was talked about was 9 months ago. The answer then was that they don't have the resources to dedicate to setting up IPv6 as they are being used for other things. Since they are still opening up in new markets I would be that that same reasoning still hold true. Basically if you really want IPv6 then use another provider at a guess.

michaelmurfy

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#1529257 9-Apr-2016 21:36

Brumfondl:

Looks like the last time this was talked about was 9 months ago. The answer then was that they don't have the resources to dedicate to setting up IPv6 as they are being used for other things. Since they are still opening up in new markets I would be that that same reasoning still hold true. Basically if you really want IPv6 then use another provider at a guess.

Yeah I totally understand. I am not switching regardless - just putting it out there that IPv6 is just another thing to strike off their lists :)

Brumfondl

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#1529265 9-Apr-2016 21:55

Based on what was said in the old thread, I wouldn't hold your breath :D

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#1529292 9-Apr-2016 23:10

I hate cats...

hashbrown

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#1529382 10-Apr-2016 11:09

So you *need* IPv6 to manage your IPv4 enabled servers....

Even if turning on v6 were zero cost, the ISP still has to deal with the people raising support calls because they can't get their 8yo d-link router to work.

eXDee

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#1529383 10-Apr-2016 11:10

Posting this from IPv6 using an local and openly peered route. Hope this helps :D

Traceroute6 to geekzone.co.nz (2400:cb00:2048:1::6819:b209)

1 fritz.box 1.736 ms 1.484 ms 1.412 ms

2 2406:e000:2801:d::1 37.512 ms 4.066 ms 2.971 ms

3 snap.ape.nzix.net 4.851 ms 5.814 ms 4.963 ms

4 cloudflare.ape.nzix.net 4.958 ms 5.883 ms 24.447 ms

5 2400:cb00:46:1024::c629:ed22 5.132 ms

2400:cb00:46:1024::c629:ed10 5.682 ms

2400:cb00:46:1024::c629:ed1c 70.331 ms

michaelmurfy

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#1529393 10-Apr-2016 11:29

hashbrown: So you *need* IPv6 to manage your IPv4 enabled servers....

Even if turning on v6 were zero cost, the ISP still has to deal with the people raising support calls because they can't get their 8yo d-link router to work.

Hmmm... Do you even IPv6 bro? I have a jumpbox so it is fine however I feel you're missing the point here. As stated above it is not specifically a need, it is more or less a want that could well benefit other customers too. Support calls? Yeah well you're being silly. The fact is the people who know and care about IPv6 will have hardware that support it whilst the rest won't care and will chug along with V4 up until they get a new router - support calls over IPv6 are really not a thing. You don't hear Orcon, 2degrees or some other providers having an increased surge of calls because of IPv6 right?

The point I am trying to make - it is 2016 and much of the internet is supported by V6. There has been many successful deployments for ISP's without an increased volume of calls and if you know me well enough you'll understand rather quickly I am an IPv6 enthusiast. I was 2nd in NZ (verified) to earn Sage level with 1500 points on the HE IPv6 certification and have also been running V6 in production environments since 2009. Peering these days is mostly done over IPv6 at the APE, WiX etc and most providers do run IPv6 somewhere on their network. There really needs to be more of a drive for it instead of people (like you) thinking of something that /could/ happen but more than likely wouldn't then attempting to dismiss the idea based on that remote worse case scenario.

Edit: Here is my Traceroute at the moment to Geekzone via IPv6:

11:51 mmurphy@charmander ~ $ traceroute6 geekzone.co.nz
traceroute to geekzone.co.nz (2400:cb00:2048:1::6819:b209), 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1 agentb-1.tunnel.tserv29.fmt1.ipv6.he.net (2001:470:66:8ce::1) 139.277 ms 139.416 ms 138.037 ms
 2 ge5-1.core1.fmt1.he.net (2001:470:0:206::1) 136.000 ms 138.482 ms 136.248 ms
 3 10ge11-1.core1.sjc2.he.net (2001:470:0:2f::2) 143.168 ms 136.256 ms 138.700 ms
 4 as13335.bay-area.megaport.com (2606:a980:0:2::8) 137.063 ms 137.356 ms 136.977 ms
 5 2400:cb00:4:1024::a29e:fe80 (2400:cb00:4:1024::a29e:fe80) 136.900 ms 136.731 ms 137.000 ms

hashbrown

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#1529441 10-Apr-2016 12:41

michaelmurfy:Hmmm... Do you even IPv6 bro?

I did IPv6. Now I've moved on.

michaelmurfy:As stated above it is not specifically a need

Then we disagree on the definition of the word essential.

michaelmurfy: Here is my Traceroute at the moment to Geekzone via IPv6:

11:51 mmurphy@charmander ~ $ traceroute6 geekzone.co.nz
traceroute to geekzone.co.nz (2400:cb00:2048:1::6819:b209), 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1 agentb-1.tunnel.tserv29.fmt1.ipv6.he.net (2001:470:66:8ce::1) 139.277 ms 139.416 ms 138.037 ms
 2 ge5-1.core1.fmt1.he.net (2001:470:0:206::1) 136.000 ms 138.482 ms 136.248 ms
 3 10ge11-1.core1.sjc2.he.net (2001:470:0:2f::2) 143.168 ms 136.256 ms 138.700 ms
 4 as13335.bay-area.megaport.com (2606:a980:0:2::8) 137.063 ms 137.356 ms 136.977 ms
 5 2400:cb00:4:1024::a29e:fe80 (2400:cb00:4:1024::a29e:fe80) 136.900 ms 136.731 ms 137.000 ms

Use IPv4 and you'll get a much better result :)

Don't get me wrong. I'm a network geek and I get that v6 is fun to play with. I'd probably be one of the first to set it up if Bigpipe turned it on. I just don't see the need for it in the consumer ISP market anytime soon.

michaelmurfy

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#1529443 10-Apr-2016 12:48

hashbrown: I just don't see the need for it in the consumer ISP market anytime soon.

This is the main problem. There will be more of a need once more ISP's adopt it - V4 space is considerably expensive now so adoption for V6 should be on the cards for all providers in a way to reduce costs.

But good to see you V6 bro. I do need V6 connectivity for some things so have 3 SSID's - one for 2.4GHz and 5GHz, another locked to 5GHz only and also an IPv6 network which is internally bonded to my main network however the router just hands over a V6 address + my DNS servers talk to that network via V6 too. It works, and prevents the problems with slow routes until my provider has native V6 :)

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