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Wannabe Geek
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Topic # 230617 5-Mar-2018 13:34
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Hi,

 

Could someone just enlighten me, I have just moved from Vodafone to Spark Before changing I got my system info off the modem

 

Vodafone 

 

Upstream line rate (kbit/s): 6760

 

Downstream line rate (kbit/s): 35459

 

Maximum upstream rate (kbit/s): 6760

 

Maximum downstream rate (kbit/s): 36976

 

 

 

I have been using Spark for 10 days

 

Downstream line rate (kbit/s) 29485

 


Upstream line rate (kbit/s) 5013

 

This seems to be a big drop in speed. I have rung the helpdesk and have been told that they have checked my line and I am getting the best I can. How can this be true when I know the line's best is 37000 and they are saying the line's best is 31000. Am I just being stone walled. Nothing has changed other than modem and provider, I am still on the same exchange with the same copper lines same vdsl plan, why would it be that Spark is 20% slower

 

I am waiting for a manager to ring me back but am not trusting what they are saying

 

Thanks


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Wannabe Geek
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  Reply # 1968273 5-Mar-2018 13:39
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Just to add to above - not sure if this is relevant 

 

Vodafone 

 

Upstream noise safety coefficient (dB): 6.2
Downstream noise safety coefficient (dB): 6.5

 

 

 

Spark

 

Downstream SNR (dB) 10.9
Upstream SNR (dB) 9.4


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  Reply # 1968274 5-Mar-2018 13:42
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It's just how VDSL works. There is no guaranteed speed. Probably your port got reset with the changeover. The speed may return, maybe it won't.
This is not Spark's fault.
Did you change modems too? Do you have a master filter installed?




Chorus has spent $1.4 billion on making their xDSL broadband network faster. If your still stuck on ADSL or VDSL, why not spend from $150 on a master filter install to make sure you are getting the most out of your connection?
I install - Naked DSL, DSL Master Splitters, VoIP, data cabling and general computer support for home and small business.
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  Reply # 1968277 5-Mar-2018 13:45
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coffeebaron: It's just how VDSL works. There is no guaranteed speed. Probably your port got reset with the changeover. The speed may return, maybe it won't.
This is not Spark's fault.
Did you change modems too? Do you have a master filter installed?

 

Pretty much all of this.

 

DDDLM is reset with a provider change. There is nothing Spark can do about this, neither is there anything at all they can do about sync speeds caused by Chorus equipment.

 

If you don't have your model plugged directly into the demarc and have other jackp oints in your house the first thing you need to do is get a master filter.

 

 

 

 




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  Reply # 1968286 5-Mar-2018 14:12
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Well that is disappointing. Yes it is a new Spark modem 630b. I talked to Spark when I changed over about putting in a master filter but they said I was getting as good as could be expected being so far from the exchange and i would spend the money for no improvement.  I am rural and think I am at the outer reach for the VDSL

 

Thanks


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  Reply # 1968314 5-Mar-2018 15:36
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The change in SNR from 6dB to 9dB will be the main factor in the decrease. It may move back to 6dB in future, but really depends on how stable your line is and surrounding noise levels. Possibly your line was less noisy when it first went to 6dB, but now with more people on VDSL nearby, it may decide to keep you where you are. It is also possible without change in ISP, you may have been eventually pushed to 9dB anyway.

 

As you're getting 30Mbps ish, then I'd put you at medium range, rather than on the edge of VDSL coverage too.

 

Do check the old modem to see if any difference in sync too. Just don't play around too much with your line though as that can negatively affect your profile too.

 

 





Chorus has spent $1.4 billion on making their xDSL broadband network faster. If your still stuck on ADSL or VDSL, why not spend from $150 on a master filter install to make sure you are getting the most out of your connection?
I install - Naked DSL, DSL Master Splitters, VoIP, data cabling and general computer support for home and small business.
Rural Broadband RBI installer for Ultimate Broadband and Full Flavour

 

Need help in Auckland, Waikato or BoP? Click my email button, or email me direct: [my user name] at geekzonemail dot com


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  Reply # 1968315 5-Mar-2018 15:38
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Why do you need a manager to call you back?

Linux




Ex JohnR VodafoneNZ 17 years 4 days

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  Reply # 1968317 5-Mar-2018 15:47
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This is not in any way Spark's fault, or within their control, and there's not really any point in following up with them.

 

You should trust what they say - they are correct, the line is performing as well as can be expected. DLM will have been reset on the line, so it will take some time to learn and re stabilise at the optimum rate. If you want to know the technical details, do a search on here for DLM (Dynamic Line Management), there are hundreds of threads on this topic.

 

If you want better throughput, there's two things you can do:

 

1) Wait. DLM will do its thing, and the line should stabilise roughly where it was previously.

 

2) Get a master filter installed - in most cases, you will see a solid improvement, but if you describe how the phone wiring is currently in your house, we should be able to give you a rough idea of improvement. @hio77 may be able to see what other lines in the area are doing for a comparison also.


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  Reply # 1968322 5-Mar-2018 15:58
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Looks like i was a little slow to catch this one.

 

 

 

First off, at a glance, I'd say absolutely what has happened is you have moved from 6dB to retraining margins. This is outside of our control.

 

 

 

I'm more than happy to dig into your line, Make sure everything is looking good.

 

Please pass me your details, case number or whatever and i'll pull this under my wing. The BAU center won't really have an answer for you unfortunately.

 

 

 

More than likely imma turn around and say, ciruit looks good and wait 3 days for it to settle in, but hey, if i see a reason it's holding up there maybe the switch of provides aligned with a fault? a change of DSLAM port? change of cable pair somewhere along the way?





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  Reply # 1968330 5-Mar-2018 16:09
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The need for/benefit of a master filter is more to do with the nature and extent of the wiring in your house, and less how far you are from the exchange/cabinet. The crummier and more extensive the internal house wiring, the bigger the benefit to be reaped.

 

Master filters are no longer mandatory - this isn't because technology has improved, but because people want the cheapest DSL instead of the best DSL.

 

If you are serious about optimising DLS performance, there are guys around that will install a master filter for you. I got a 10-20% improvement on ADSL. Went straight to fibre, so can't say from experience what the VDSL improvement was.




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  Reply # 1968346 5-Mar-2018 17:09
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Thanks for all the help, I have waded through all the VDSL threads and DLM but am pretty dumb with this stuff.

 

I have waited for 10 days just to see where it settled as I understood from reading your threads it could take a while.

 

I am in a tiny enclave of houses in a rural area where we have school that they upgraded the cabinet which meant I could get VDSL. There are about 17 houses maximum that are in range. When I very first got VDSL it took Chorus several trips out to sort the connection at the cabinet but once they got that sorted apart from it failing out at the road after a storm it has been very stable. 

 

Linux - I had asked to talk to the manager as the help desk just said it was fine but that I might be on a new cabinet, but there is only one cabinet out here. Also when I started with Vodafone they said I had moved to VDSL and my speed was fine when I could see on my modem I was still on ADSL so am a bit wary about the information the helpdesk has sometimes. The Chorus technician took a couple of goes to find a good connection for me at the cabinet (I have no idea about the detail of that except he said I was on a dodgy one initially)

 

The manager has just phoned and said she has passed it to Chorus

 

I will send my details to you hio77

 

Once again thanks for all the help - I appreciate your patience!

 

Cheers


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  Reply # 1968347 5-Mar-2018 17:16
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Looks to me like your on one of the weird little error situations on chorus's end when ddDLM doesn't work as intended (assigns wrong profile)

 

 

 

I've fixed this. 32mbit sync right off the bat at 9dB (where if it drops to 6dB i'd expect about a 4mbit rise thus, 36mbit...)

 

Will give you a quick call and cleanup some back of house stuff in a little here.

 

 

 

 

 

encase anyone is after the technical explanation, this is where the vectored profile is assigned to a line without vectoring on eg. 99% of lines.

 

vectoring profile agressively uses 17a expecting noise canceling to play a part. Obviously doesn't work in this case.

 

 

 

17a did net a better upstream speed, Although marginal.

 

I'm monitoring it from here. @OP you have my contact :)

 

 

 

 





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Reply # 1968361 5-Mar-2018 17:27
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Thank you Thank you Thank you smile


'That VDSL Cat'
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  Reply # 1971352 8-Mar-2018 17:58
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Looks like this case got nabbed off my list :/

 

 

 

38/7mbit now, riding a little low on the noise and on a reboot would drop to about 35/6.6mbit but otherwise looking solid.

 

Apologies for any fear of passed on charges involved in discussion, it wasnt even a question in the way it was logged.

 

 

 

 





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  Reply # 1971371 8-Mar-2018 19:17
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tripper1000:

 

The need for/benefit of a master filter is more to do with the nature and extent of the wiring in your house, and less how far you are from the exchange/cabinet. The crummier and more extensive the internal house wiring, the bigger the benefit to be reaped.

 

Master filters are no longer mandatory - this isn't because technology has improved, but because people want the cheapest DSL instead of the best DSL.

 

If you are serious about optimising DLS performance, there are guys around that will install a master filter for you. I got a 10-20% improvement on ADSL. Went straight to fibre, so can't say from experience what the VDSL improvement was.

 

 

That's it. That is so common these days. Check Stuff comments to confirm!  If you own the home, or plan to rent for a good while, optimise the home, the results will look after themselves.




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  Reply # 1971730 9-Mar-2018 11:54
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Really happy with the improvement and thanks for sorting out charge - I was alarmed to get a call saying there was nothing wrong and therefore I was going to be charged. Thanks for sorting that!

 

I know it is bit how long is a piece of string but I am in an old old house - is putting in a master splitter likely to give yet more speed as I am also on an old network. I don't currently have the budget but given that you can see the network you may be able to give me a informed decision.  

 

Once again thanks for all the help and the expertise that people share on this board. I often find my answers by reading here

 

Cheers


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