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89 posts

Master Geek
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Topic # 23301 25-Jun-2008 01:16
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Since about a week ago on the weekend (14/15th, not this weekend just gone) my usually perfectly solid ADSL has gone to complete rubbish for apparently no reason.

Came home from a friend's on sunday and noticed the internet was slower than usual - after confirming from speedtest.net I checked the speed in the router and found it was less than half of the usual rate.

I rebooted it and everything seemed fine until that night when I noticed the speed had gone down again - I checked the router again and again speed was less than half, with about 8 disconnections (I expect there had been some the first time too, but I didn't look)

So I rang telecom, who told me my line was fine because it had recently been repaired (this was a few months ago when I had been getting a lot of audible noise on the line and disconnections which they said had been caused by a faulty connection down the road)
Doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out that telling me my line is still fine now because it was fine months ago doesn't make sense.

Then they went on to tell me some rubbish that "It's probably because you have Go large - if you download too much we have to slow it down to make it fair for other people, and that's why it's slow"

Telecom helpdesk even said that yes, my line rate would drop when this ocurred (why? I'm fairly sure they would just shape the data)

Even so, they couldn't even confirm if this had happened or not.
I also get the idea that they contact you before they do this: http://www.telecom.co.nz/tools/1,8752,205451-204363,00.html

Then I was told it should be fine the next day.


Of course, it wasn't. While it connected fine that morning, a few disconnections later and a drop in speed again told me that the first person I called had no idea what they were on about, and also they were obviously wrong.


So I called again that night, and managed to get a port reset done which seemed to solve the problem - again, until the next day when it all turned to custard again

So all week i've been trying different routers and filters and combinations of phones and just about every damn thing you can think of - but nothing seems to work!

Connection seems pretty stable when it's at ~1500k but if it manages to get full speed (~3500k) it usually drops within the hour and goes back to ~1500 again

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6022 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 140377 25-Jun-2008 08:41
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Has your exchange been upgraded to ADSL2+, what does the modem report, some tell you what mode they are in. Also what does the line attenuation and S/N report both when going good and when bad.

You refer to various speeds, are these line sync rates or speedtest rates.

Cyril



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Master Geek
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  Reply # 140448 25-Jun-2008 14:00
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As far as I know (from what my router says) the exchange has been upgraded to ADSL2+. But that was a while back, and I haven't had any issues until now - so I'm not sure that is what's causing the problem.

I live in Sunnyvale, from what I read on these forums before I am on the Glen Eden exchange.

Attenuation stays the same but Noise margin changes slightly


The speeds I refer to are the line sync rates.

Here are 2 screenshots to show differences but seems today it can't even make it past ~2100k

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/9393/slowspeedar5.png

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/931/betterspeedia7.png

 
 
 
 


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Spark NZ

  Reply # 140459 25-Jun-2008 14:53
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It's your attenuation... It's very high and the speed is consistent with the attenuation values.

This is typically dependant on the distance you are from the exchange/cabinet, but in your case it sounds like something else is happening on the wire.

http://hwiki.digitalsouth.net.nz/broadband/attenuationandnoise

Personally, I'd ring back, ask how far you are from the exchange, and then quote the attenuation figure at them and ask if that seems to be a reasonable number...

Cheers - N

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  Reply # 140460 25-Jun-2008 14:56
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Hi, according to those figures you are roughly 4km from the exchange, your sync rates are a around typical to slightly worse than what can be achieved at that distance. If you think you are significantly less than that (and where teh cable actually runs may be way longer than you drive) then you could have a poor joint on the line. Once you are over 50dB you start the slippery slope of unstable connections.

If you can force the modem back to ADSL1 (G.dmt/G.922.1) you may be better off as ADSL1 will behave in a more stable manner on longer lines. Also worth a try is if the modem supports ADSL2+(RE) also known as G.992.3 AnnexL or READSL2 then try that, this is better for lines upto 7km but has a lower maxium download rate.

At 54dB its worth checkiing your sync rates with all phones/filters removed and connecting as close to the demark as possible with all other house wiring disconnected from that point on to see what the best rate possible is with no house wiring issues.

Cyril

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  Reply # 140461 25-Jun-2008 14:58
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Oh also I notice that the router has connected with "ADSL2" mode... I also have a Dynalink 1025W - which it looks like yours is, and I have a suspicion that you should be connecting at "ADSL2+"... I may be wrong though...

Cheers - N



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  Reply # 140463 25-Jun-2008 15:07
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Talkiet: It's your attenuation... It's very high and the speed is consistent with the attenuation values.

This is typically dependant on the distance you are from the exchange/cabinet, but in your case it sounds like something else is happening on the wire.


As far as I know, the attenuation has been constant and around that number ever since I've had broadband.

The only problem with that is I originally had a 256k connection, and then later on upgraded to 2Mbit - so if it was rubbish then I may not have noticed it since it was slow anyway.

But that also contradicts with it running fine at 3500k for the past few months (after I replaced my D-link filters with DSE ones) and started using the Dynalink RTA-230.

cyril7: Hi, according to those figures you are roughly 4km from the exchange, your sync rates are a around typical to slightly worse than what can be achieved at that distance. If you think you are significantly less than that (and where teh cable actually runs may be way longer than you drive) then you could have a poor joint on the line.  Once you are over 50dB you start the slippery slope of unstable connections.

If you can force the modem back to ADSL1 (G.dmt/G.922.1) you may be better off as ADSL1 will behave in a more stable manner on longer lines. Also worth a try is if the modem supports ADSL2+(RE) also known as G.992.3 AnnexL then try that, this is better for lines upto 7km but has a lower maxium download rate.

At 54dB its worth checkiing your sync rates with all phones/filters removed and connecting as close to the demark as possible with all other house wiring disconnected from that point on to see what the best rate possible is with no house wiring issues.

Cyril


I'll try all of those and post back soon.

Talkiet: Oh also I notice that the router has connected with "ADSL2" mode... I also have a Dynalink 1025W - which it looks like yours is, and I have a suspicion that you should be connecting at "ADSL2+"... I may be wrong though...

Cheers - N


Currently using Dynalink RTA-230 but I also have a D-Link 502T GenII which says my line is "ADSL2_plus" so I expect it's just not reporting the mode correctly.

Note, I also get the bad line speeds and problems with the D-Link too



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Master Geek
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  Reply # 140504 25-Jun-2008 17:00
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Ok, so I put it into READSL2 mode - which worked fine at normal speeds for about an hour and a half - until again it died and reconnected at ~1600k

Tried G.dmt, got ~1700k on the first try.

These are the options I have:

Select the support of line modes: G.dmt G.lite T1.413
  ADSL2 READSL2 
  
    
I have a feeling though, that no matter what I do - nothing is going to work. I feel that something has suddenly happened to cause this otherwise fully working connection to go right down the drain

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  Reply # 140510 25-Jun-2008 17:08
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I suggest that you stick with G.dmt (ADSL1), this is well known to be more stable on longer lines. It may well be that you have an issue on the line, such as a bad joint, or even a dodgy DSLAM port, in which case you need Telecom to have a look.

I assume you preformed the total line isolation test I recommended, ie modem as close to demark as possible, all other house wiring removed from the line, so no other devices/phones or cabling is on the line.

Other things to keep in mind is that with such a high attenuation any seeminly minor issue such as moisture increase do to weather etc can make things go bad, things that might not be such an issue if your on a 2-3km line become much more important and of issue with a longer line.

Cyril



89 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 19


  Reply # 140517 25-Jun-2008 17:29
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cyril7: I suggest that you stick with G.dmt (ADSL1), this is well known to be more stable on longer lines. It may well be that you have an issue on the line, such as a bad joint, or even a dodgy DSLAM port, in which case you need Telecom to have a look.

I assume you preformed the total line isolation test I recommended, ie modem as close to demark as possible, all other house wiring removed from the line, so no other devices/phones or cabling is on the line.

Other things to keep in mind is that with such a high attenuation any seeminly minor issue such as moisture increase do to weather etc can make things go bad, things that might not be such an issue if your on a 2-3km line become much more important and of issue with a longer line.

Cyril


The best I can do is disconnect everything and plug the router into the jack in the kitchen (closest jack to the outside connection)

Currently I've only tried disconnecting all phones, filters and trying the router direct from the jack in my room (the only other jack), but that also has the slow connection problem - so I expect this is not an issue with my own wiring/phones/filters (but I will try in the other jack after posting this just to make sure)

I can't really go around disconnecting any wires because not only are they up in the ceiling - if I did disconnect them I wouldn't be able to reconnect as I don't have the right equipment.


What gets me with this is that I know I can get a solid connection at ~3500k. It's been like that for months with no problems until now. I know my line is rather long but I don't think it's the problem.

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  Reply # 140554 25-Jun-2008 19:12
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I am not disagreing that you need to get Telecom involved, from what you have described you have good reason to suspect something has gone down hill. Things to ponder is the effect of weather, still a Telecom problem is water is ingressing cables, and hey may not be even the problem, but its one thing that has changed lately.

Ideally when you connect to the closest jack attempt to remove the remaining cable/jack by removing the onward wiring from the rear of the first jack. Obviuosly things like alarm dialers should be removed, these can be very bad for DSL.

Under good conditions a 4km line should readily be able to support a 4Mb/s sync, which would give a 3-3.5Mb/s TCP throughput, which is what you have seen.

Cyril



89 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 19


  Reply # 140561 25-Jun-2008 19:34
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cyril7: I am not disagreing that you need to get Telecom involved, from what you have described you have good reason to suspect something has gone down hill. Things to ponder is the effect of weather, still a Telecom problem is water is ingressing cables, and hey may not be even the problem, but its one thing that has changed lately.

Ideally when you connect to the closest jack attempt to remove the remaining cable/jack by removing the onward wiring from the rear of the first jack. Obviuosly things like alarm dialers should be removed, these can be very bad for DSL.

Under good conditions a 4km line should readily be able to support a 4Mb/s sync, which would give a 3-3.5Mb/s TCP throughput, which is what you have seen.

Cyril


There's nothing on the line except a phone/filter at each jack + the router this end.

Problem with this wiring is that I don't actually know exactly how it's setup. The jack I'm using the router on was not original to the house, it was added later.

When the contractor installed it, the extension connected to the original wires somewhere in the ceiling, that point itself is about halfway between both jacks.


I called telecom again, said they'd do a port reset and also see if it was go large traffic management causing the slow speed - and call me back with the result (which may be so, but which doesn't seem to account for the disconnections and the fact I can often get normal speeds at the moment - well for short periods anyway)

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