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Forums › Spark New Zealand › WCDMA + iPhone


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Topic # 24054 14-Jul-2008 11:07

This from the Dominion Post........

iPhone fans may be better off waiting for Telecom to sell the much-hyped smart phone after Telecom said it was talking to suppliers about rolling out a WCDMA 850MHz mobile network.


Analyst ABN Amro said this could be a "silver bullet" for Telecom mobile, which has recently lost market share to Vodafone.

The investment would mean that iPhone users would be able to use the 3G features of Apple's latest iPhone anywhere within Telecom's network coverage area, as opposed to within only parts of the main centres serviced by Vodafone's 2100MHz 3G network.

ABN Amro said a nationwide W-850 deployment would "provide iPhone users with a superior speed and coverage advantage relative to Vodafone and help to drive brand perception in a segment dominated by Vodafone".

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  Reply # 147700 14-Jul-2008 11:46
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It's no secret that Telecom plan an 850 WCDMA network however expectations are that this won't occur for several years as Telecom would more than likely move straight to LTE. I wouldn't necessarily believe anything from so called expert anaysts like ABN Amro who aren't even aware that Vodafone NZ have a 900MHz WCDMA network - let along it being the biggest such network in the world.

The big problem here for Telecom is spectrum - they were forced to sell some of their 850 spectrum to NZ Comms and questions remain about whether would technically be possible to deploy 850 CDMA, 850 GSM and 850 WCDMA with their current spectrum. The most logical assumption is a 2012 CDMA shutdown and replacement with WCDMA+LTE however I guess none of us are really in a position to know what's going on inside Telecom!

With the rumors that there will be no more CDMA devices approved for the network and that the emphasis will be taken off CDMA from November I guess anything is possible!

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Reply # 147701 14-Jul-2008 11:51
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We have had 2 x CDMA devices approved this year so far and we have another in for PTC at the moment...... customers are still rolling out large CDMA deployments for Telemetry




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  Reply # 147736 14-Jul-2008 13:35
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Looking at this article which lists the number of 850Meg (Telecom)  and 900 Meg  Vodafone) fones available  this will royaly piss off Vodafone.

 

"But according to ABN Amro, there are now only three commercial W-900 networks – in Finland, Estonia and Thailand. Just seven handsets support the technology, compared with 116 that support W-850. Apple's 3G iPhone can only operate at 2G speeds when connecting to 900MHz cellsites."




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  Reply # 148238 15-Jul-2008 19:02
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Well the Telecom GSM + WCDMA network will have EDGE away from the main centres compared to the outlying areas on Vodafone's network which won't...




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  Reply # 148241 15-Jul-2008 19:08
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munchkin: Well the Telecom GSM + WCDMA network will have EDGE away from the main centres compared to the outlying areas on Vodafone's network which won't...


Many Rural areas have HSDPA now over 900mhz

Even Hellensvile

Just need the devices

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  Reply # 148242 15-Jul-2008 19:11
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Oh, I know that. I'm just thinking of the outlying areas where the iPhone might be forced to use GPRS.




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  Reply # 148248 15-Jul-2008 19:31

So IF Telecom builds a 3G 850MHz network, and IF that network is nationwide instead of concentrated in the main centres and IF the iPhone is NOT made available on other frequencies (such as 900MHz) and IF nothing else changes, THEN Telecom's network will be better than Vodafone's network will be...

I think that's the gist of it.

To be fair the ABN Amro report came out before we announced we're spending $500m on extending the reach of our 3G network to 97% of the country's population... but the Dompost knew that and it doesn't seem to factor into the story at all.

Cheers

Paul




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  Reply # 148252 15-Jul-2008 19:37
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Regardless of VF rolling out the new 900MHz UMTS portion of it's network, the iPhone still won't work on it, thus it's irrelevant.




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  Reply # 148262 15-Jul-2008 19:56

munchkin:
Regardless of VF rolling out the new 900MHz UMTS portion of it's network, the iPhone still won't work on it, thus it's irrelevant.


Given all the other assumptions in the story I think it's only fair to assume that Apple will build a 900MHz 3G iPhone as well.

Cheers

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  Reply # 148341 15-Jul-2008 22:31
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PaulBrislen:
munchkin:
Regardless of VF rolling out the new 900MHz UMTS portion of it's network, the iPhone still won't work on it, thus it's irrelevant.


Given all the other assumptions in the story I think it's only fair to assume that Apple will build a 900MHz 3G iPhone as well.

Cheers

Paul

Thats pretty much a given, just look at their ipods, changed 5 times or so.



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  Reply # 148512 16-Jul-2008 14:39

PaulBrislen:
munchkin:
Regardless of VF rolling out the new 900MHz UMTS portion of it's network, the iPhone still won't work on it, thus it's irrelevant.


Given all the other assumptions in the story I think it's only fair to assume that Apple will build a 900MHz 3G iPhone as well.

Cheers

Paul


That's too bad for the people that have already bought one then

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  Reply # 148515 16-Jul-2008 14:53
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PaulBrislen: To be fair the ABN Amro report came out before we announced we're spending $500m on extending the reach of our 3G network to 97% of the country's population... but the Dompost knew that and it doesn't seem to factor into the story at all.


My recollection of the report was that this would take your spend to date to $500m - not that you were spending an additional $500m....

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  Reply # 148578 16-Jul-2008 18:00
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PaulBrislen: So IF Telecom builds a 3G 850MHz network, and IF that network is nationwide instead of concentrated in the main centres and IF the iPhone is NOT made available on other frequencies (such as 900MHz) and IF nothing else changes, THEN Telecom's network will be better than Vodafone's network will be...

I think that's the gist of it.

To be fair the ABN Amro report came out before we announced we're spending $500m on extending the reach of our 3G network to 97% of the country's population... but the Dompost knew that and it doesn't seem to factor into the story at all.

Cheers

Paul

 

Technology is always changing, look at teleocm, as they now have to switch from CDMA to GSM due to changing technologies. 

 

I think are lot of those IF's are IF's no longer. Telecom ARE building a 3G 850MHz network, and it WILL be nationwide eventually, at least as far as their current CDMA network is. I think they would be investing at least 500 million in it too, as I am sure it isn't cheap.

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  Reply # 148579 16-Jul-2008 18:01
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undecided:
PaulBrislen:
munchkin:
Regardless of VF rolling out the new 900MHz UMTS portion of it's network, the iPhone still won't work on it, thus it's irrelevant.


Given all the other assumptions in the story I think it's only fair to assume that Apple will build a 900MHz 3G iPhone as well.

Cheers

Paul


That's too bad for the people that have already bought one then

 

That they are locked into a 24 month contract, yes a shame, but people were warned thatthe plans may not be the best of value. At least compared to overseas, they are the world most expensive iphone plans.

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  Reply # 148650 16-Jul-2008 21:11
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robbypreb:
PaulBrislen: So IF Telecom builds a 3G 850MHz network, and IF that network is nationwide instead of concentrated in the main centres and IF the iPhone is NOT made available on other frequencies (such as 900MHz) and IF nothing else changes, THEN Telecom's network will be better than Vodafone's network will be...

I think that's the gist of it.

To be fair the ABN Amro report came out before we announced we're spending $500m on extending the reach of our 3G network to 97% of the country's population... but the Dompost knew that and it doesn't seem to factor into the story at all.

Cheers

Paul


Technology is always changing, look at teleocm, as they now have to switch from CDMA to GSM due to changing technologies. 


I think are lot of those IF's are IF's no longer. Telecom ARE building a 3G 850MHz network, and it WILL be nationwide eventually, at least as far as their current CDMA network is. I think they would be investing at least 500 million in it too, as I am sure it isn't cheap.



Just to correct with what is happening currently, Telecom are confirmed to be rolling out 850GSM/ GPRS Edge to all sites nationwide - classed as 2.5g. they are also rolling out a commited 2100mhz UMTS 3g network in the 3 major centres, other areas may also be done but at this moment they will only confirm Auck/ Well / CHCH.

Now we already know they intended to install UMTS in Nelson as an example but some local zelots with limited understanding got in their way. So it is quite likely several areas outside of Auck / Well / CHCH will have UMTS 2100mhz at launch but we wont know until then.

Now as far as 850Mhz UMTS goes, this is an option for Telecom and you dont have to be a rocket scientist to understand that this is going to happen sooner rather than later, it is yet to be confirmed but it is highly likely to happen.

WHY?

Telecom cannot economically expand UMTS out side of metros with out using 850MHZ so they have stated that the 3g network will mirror the current EVDO network in the next few years. At 80%+ that will be an expensive, impossible option with 2100 so Telecom will do this any way they can.

As Vodafone have acted swiftly to announce a nationwide 3g build out the race is on. Good on Vodafone for that!

Just to note re Pauls comments, on an 850mhz GSM network the IPhone will obviously work slight better on a cell to cell comparison with a 900mhz GSM network, the propagation is better on the lower freq, not by much but it should be better and with the GPRS EDGE addition the data will be better in the short term. But in the next year or so when 900MHZ UMTS is more widely available overseas they will no doubt have 900mhz added to the I Phone and with that Vodafone 3g nationwide.

However by then Telecom may have already launched an 850mhz UMTS network which again will perform better and the current Iphone already is 850UMTS ready. Telecoms advantage is freq and the fact tha 850mhz is more widely spread now.

I think these next few years will be really interesting, i am certainly planning to cash in as networks spend mega money to bring real mobile broadband to the nation.

One wee note. Telecom could also roll out REV A and then REV C EVDO nationwide which again will perform very well against UMTS on both 850/900mhz. They dont have a huge number of sites to do and it will cost a pitence compared to UMTS.





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