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264 posts

Ultimate Geek

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#272555 1-Jul-2020 14:33
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Hi GZ,

 

 

 

A private school customer of mine is on a fiber circuit that was installed to service 3 schools in the area - it's out of the usual fiber coverage zone. 

 

They are paying $249/month for 100Mb fiber, and I'd like to do two things - improve the price and get it up to 200Mbps. 

 

I'm not sure how the provision works - from what I can tell the service is offered by Chorus, but is sold through Spark Business. The price seems really high, but maybe that's completely normal for a connection like this. 

 

 

 

Any info would be much appreciated! The local Business Hub are looking into the pricing as well but they needed to do some more digging themselves. I'll update the thread if I hear anything.


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6684 posts

Uber Geek

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  #2515686 1-Jul-2020 14:48
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So you want to double the speed and at the same time make the pricing lower?


4 posts

Wannabe Geek


  #2515690 1-Jul-2020 14:56
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Have you checked out Network for Learning (N4L) https://www.education.govt.nz/school/digital-technology/your-schools-ict-network/choose-an-internet-service-provider/?

 

 


 
 
 
 




264 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  #2515692 1-Jul-2020 14:59
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Linux:

 

So you want to double the speed and at the same time make the pricing lower?

 

 

Thanks for trying to make my request look silly. 

 

I just want to know how this type of broadband pricing and sales works. Spark Business Hub have no idea, but they are looking into it. It looks to me like Chorus provides the service, and Spark are selling it to the school. 

 

The price is about 4x that of normal residential fiber. There is every chance that the school is on an old plan that was set up when the fiber was first installed. There is also every chance that someone on GZ knows of other providers that can do better pricing on that type of connection. I don't know how the Chorus Bitstream service works which is why I asked.

 

A simple call to a user's internet provider can very often result in a faster connection at a better price. This could also apply here. Most ISPs aren't actively informing their customers when a better pricing plan comes along - you stay on the old plan until you figure out that you should be on a better plan. I've had customers that have been on old, overpriced plans for years. 




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Ultimate Geek

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  #2515696 1-Jul-2020 15:03
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ProbablyAGeek:

 

Have you checked out Network for Learning (N4L) https://www.education.govt.nz/school/digital-technology/your-schools-ict-network/choose-an-internet-service-provider/?

 

 

 

 

I will give them a try, I was under the impression that they only provided services to Ministry of Education schools, but it's worth a look. Thanks.


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Uber Geek

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  #2515699 1-Jul-2020 15:10
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$249/month sounds completely reasonable for BS3 fibre.

But I guess the question is, do they really need the high priority CIR?

You can probably get away with a standard BS2/2a and simply tack on a Gold SLA for improved fault response times. I assume faults is the more important thing.



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Ultimate Geek

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  #2515708 1-Jul-2020 15:24
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chevrolux: $249/month sounds completely reasonable for BS3 fibre.

But I guess the question is, do they really need the high priority CIR?

You can probably get away with a standard BS2/2a and simply tack on a Gold SLA for improved fault response times. I assume faults is the more important thing.

 

Thanks for this - I don't know if fault response is even a big issue, would Chorus not be maintaining the line regardless of SLA considering there's 2 other schools on it? Would the SLA cover response for onsite equipment? 

 

I appreciate your input, I really don't know what they're paying for in terms of SLA/CIR etc., all the other schools I've worked with are on the N4L Managed Network. 

 

All they really need is the same as what any standard fiber business connection would have - ideally 200Mbps up/down. I'm guessing because of the line they are on they are forced to use the BS3/BS2 type services, but it's all new to me. 

 

I just checked their bill when I was looking into speed issues onsite to see what plan they were on, and was surprised at the price. 

 

Are you able to explain to me what it is they are getting in comparison to a usual business fiber connection like you'd get on Spark Business? Who can sell us the connection and get us onto an optimal plan? Spark Business, who are selling the plan, don't have much of an idea how we can change plans or pricing. In comparison, on Spark Business (in normal fiber areas) you can get 900/400 on their plans for $110/month, but I'm guessing they are not an option.


'That VDSL Cat'
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  #2515714 1-Jul-2020 15:29
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I would recommend speaking to your account manager about this.

 

It sounds like you have a BS3 service and your trying to compare it to pricing of a BS2 service.





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

 


 
 
 
 


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Wannabe Geek


  #2515715 1-Jul-2020 15:30
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Apologies, just saw you said it was for a private school




264 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  #2515720 1-Jul-2020 15:59
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hio77:

 

I would recommend speaking to your account manager about this.

 

It sounds like you have a BS3 service and your trying to compare it to pricing of a BS2 service.

 

 

 

 

Thanks, I've contacted the account manager, who is looking into it for us. They did not have much of an idea of what the service was or how the pricing works, so they are looking into it further. I don't know anything about either service as I've only dealt with standard business/residential plans on the main fiber network, or N4L managed services. I'm not sure how the whole BS2/BS3 service even works. 


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Master Geek


  #2515742 1-Jul-2020 16:44
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https://www.n4l.co.nz/managed-network-terms/ - section 1.17,
Independent Schools are not funded for the Managed Network to the School service by the Ministry of Education. Accordingly:
each Independent School’s Charges for their N4L-provided Internet Connection are as specified in its Order Form (a document titled “Managed Network Contract for Independent Schools”)
MAC Charges are payable in accordance with clause 1.21 (MAC Charges).

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Uber Geek

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  #2515983 2-Jul-2020 09:03
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I would highly recommend you don't bother with the business hub and just ring 126. At least the people at 126 will actually know what you are talking about, or will get you to a team that does. Business Hubs just simply have poorly trained salesman who think they know what they are talking about.

 

...that may sound harsh, but simply speaking from experience.


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  #2515995 2-Jul-2020 09:31
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Hi, as someone who used to be involved with this sector, I am guessing you are paying for a BS3a service which is essentially what N4L have, along with better spec CIR it also has vlan transparency and obviously better SLA's. N4L use extra vlans for a managment wan, but unless you are linking the three schools via a wan vlan then BS3a is of no use to you and you are paying for something you dont need.

 

Depending on the roll size of the schools you are probably better of just ordering a 950/450 BS3 Small Business connection which now comes with same/similar SLAs to BS3a connections, that should only cost you around $150/month. But note BS3 is a single vlan only which is used to deliver internet just like any residential connecton, ie you have no intention to use extra vlans to create a private wan should you want to.

 

As for N4L, as noted above as a private school you can apply connection, but it will probalby cost you more than you currently pay, however does come with an excellent level of support, managment and security via way of a well setup Fortigate UTM applicance.

 

Cyril




264 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  #2516007 2-Jul-2020 10:09
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cyril7:

 

Hi, as someone who used to be involved with this sector, I am guessing you are paying for a BS3a service which is essentially what N4L have, along with better spec CIR it also has vlan transparency and obviously better SLA's. N4L use extra vlans for a managment wan, but unless you are linking the three schools via a wan vlan then BS3a is of no use to you and you are paying for something you dont need.

 

Depending on the roll size of the schools you are probably better of just ordering a 950/450 BS3 Small Business connection which now comes with same/similar SLAs to BS3a connections, that should only cost you around $150/month. But note BS3 is a single vlan only which is used to deliver internet just like any residential connecton, ie you have no intention to use extra vlans to create a private wan should you want to.

 

As for N4L, as noted above as a private school you can apply connection, but it will probalby cost you more than you currently pay, however does come with an excellent level of support, managment and security via way of a well setup Fortigate UTM applicance.

 

Cyril

 

 

Thanks for this, I appreciate the advice. I've seen you all over GZ giving advice, including to me in the past. It's great that you take the time to do it!

 

There's no need for anything other than a single vlan, so I think BS3 will probably be a good option to look into. Should I just call 126 directly as mentioned above to discuss it with someone? I have not had much luck with the school's account manager at the business hub.

 

I've contacted N4L and they are getting back to me with some pricing - their level of service has been great when I've dealt with them on behalf of ministry schools, and their Fortigate system is great.




264 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  #2516008 2-Jul-2020 10:11
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chevrolux:

 

I would highly recommend you don't bother with the business hub and just ring 126. At least the people at 126 will actually know what you are talking about, or will get you to a team that does. Business Hubs just simply have poorly trained salesman who think they know what they are talking about.

 

...that may sound harsh, but simply speaking from experience.

 

 

Thanks, I must admit that it does seem like a sales oriented role for the staff at the business hubs.




264 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  #2516010 2-Jul-2020 10:12
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halper86: https://www.n4l.co.nz/managed-network-terms/ - section 1.17,
Independent Schools are not funded for the Managed Network to the School service by the Ministry of Education. Accordingly:
each Independent School’s Charges for their N4L-provided Internet Connection are as specified in its Order Form (a document titled “Managed Network Contract for Independent Schools”)
MAC Charges are payable in accordance with clause 1.21 (MAC Charges).

 

Thanks for digging this up - N4L are going to look into pricing for us, but I'm guessing it's going to be a bit pricey. 


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