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5 posts

Wannabe Geek


Topic # 27738 4-Nov-2008 23:55
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Ok sorry if I am duplicating anything here but I haven't found the answer using the search functions...

Looking at my connection I notice lots ofCRC and HEC errors on my nice new shiny Thomson Router that telecom supplied. So I did the 123 faults thing and on Saturday the man arrive also heard the poor line quality with hiss and crackle and duly exchanged my line for a different one to the exchange. He check I had all the filters etc connected and basically said suck it and see and call back if you have anymore issues. 

I did point out the master box had an "M" on it the second point had an "E" on it the one for sky had a "2" on it and the last point also had a "2" on it. Looking at the numbers from the router I took my screwdriver in had and unscrewed some face plates and here is what I have found.....

The Master Socket

Really old and nasty really. One main wire comming in 'Black and Yellow' connected to 2 and 5 on the back of the point. Wire wires connected out made of straded cable 2,3 and 5.

Second point with 'E'

Very badly corroded with 3 wires connected but not the same cable as in master box.

Last two with '2' on the front

Installed by Sky Installer I think again different cable looks like cat 5 type and second socket daisy chained 2 and 5 connected.

Heres what I did I visited Mitre 10 and replaced the master socket with this item http://www.mitre10.co.nz/shop/lighting_and_electrical/electrical_outlets_and_fittings/custom_2_wire_telephone_socket_106731.cfm?sid=1&rid=17&orderby=1 reconnected as origionally found but DIDNT connect connection on terminal no.3 the ring wire.

My questions are as follows.

Is the replacement socket going to be OK with telecom as I dont see a lightning suppersor or test capacitor on it?

I intend to wire in a ADSL in line filter ST550 as used by telecom abd run a new dedicated ADSL point for the router and also replace all existing cable with cat5 type in the process update the remaining old socket to a '2' type. Is this a good idea?

Whats the best way to mount the ST550 in line filter in a suitable surface mount box (maybe a double socket box with blanking front plate?).

Thanks All

Ian 

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  Reply # 175956 5-Nov-2008 00:23
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Messy wiring normally causes low speeds and lots of errors, especially if it's been added to and added to..

[Is the replacement socket going to be OK with telecom as I dont see a lightning suppersor or test capacitor on it?]


That 'capactor' thing you see on the 'm' (master) jack etc, is only used to help generate the 'ring' (pin 3)
Using a 2wire system doesnt need pin 3 or the extra wire -hense capacitor not needed


[I intend to wire in a ADSL in line filter ST550 as used by telecom abd run a new dedicated ADSL point for the router and also replace all existing cable with cat5 type in the process update the remaining old socket to a '2' type. Is this a good idea?]


That is a very good idea and something we try and push onto our customers too. A dedicated cable from modem to demarc point which also houses inline adsl filter is now normal common practice on all new and renovated sites.

[Whats the best way to mount the ST550 in line filter in a suitable surface mount box (maybe a double socket box with blanking front plate?).]
If your running all your cables to the outside demarc which is normally a white square box on outside of house, put filter in there -will just fit. otherwise where ever all your cables join (at the centre of the star point)



Note
m=Master jack on 3 wire system
e=extra jack on 3 wire system or something along those lines
s= same as above
2=2wire system jack



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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 175975 5-Nov-2008 06:32
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Hi thanks for the reply...

I have looked for the white demarc point on the outside of the house but there but there isn't one...only a black cable running up and through the brick work which has confused me a little. I will go under the house to check this out when I do the work for sure which is why I was going to mount the surface mount box next to the existing entry point.

Ian

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  Reply # 176242 6-Nov-2008 06:35
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Really old and nasty really. One main wire comming in 'Black and Yellow' connected to 2 and 5 on the back of the point. Wire wires connected out made of straded cable 2,3 and 5.


The Black and yellow wires are probably the black gel cable (Ext026)  from the street that you see running in via the brick work. If you can confirm that (and its most likely so as it goes to the M=Master jack) then the filter should go at the master jack which you should replace with a 2wire one and on all jacks. The 2wire jacks only have two connections, ie only one pair, no 3rd bell wire. The two rows of Krone IDC headers on the rear are each the A and B wires, ie one row is all the A leg, the other all the B leg.

I would replace all phone sockets with 2wire sockets. To house the filter you might concider changing the master socket to a flush electrical wall plate type like this electrical wholesalers have them, this way the ST550 can be fitted within the flush box, it does however require that you cut a hole in the wall and mount the flush box and plate, helps if its next to a stud or use a Gib fit flush box but you need to be precise in cutting the hole if you go that route.

Cyril

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  Reply # 176244 6-Nov-2008 07:51
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Note that cyril7 replies early in the morning!

Since you are doing all the work I hope that you aren't also paying the maintenance fee. If you were the faults guy shouldn't have left those old jacks.



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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 176253 6-Nov-2008 09:12
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Yes Cyril the black wire is the gel type so thats why I guessed it comes directly in from the outside world.

Does the polarity of the connections either for the phone or the filters matter?

I was going to stick with the following

Black (Incomming Tip) - White/Orange Stripe (FILTER) - White/Blue Stripe to Pin 2 on phone sockets.

Yellow (Incomming Ring)- Orange/White stripe (FILTER) - Blue/White Stripe to Pin 5 on sockets.

I think this is the standard?

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  Reply # 176255 6-Nov-2008 09:19
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Hi, it does not matter if you reverse them, what you note is fine, it is best if you are consistant. I strongly urge you to remove old Master and Extention (ie labled M,E or S) sockets and replace with the new standard ones labled 2 as in 2wire. As explained before on the rear of the 2wire sockets (this includes ones like I linked that are on electrical plates) there are two Krone IDC header sets. All the slots of each set are wired together, one set is the A leg the other the Bleg, this lets you wire extentions or connect your filter without having to put more than one wire in any slot.

Cyril



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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 176256 6-Nov-2008 09:33
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Yes I was planning on doing that and at the same time replacing all of the wiring under the house as last time I peered under the house none if it has been clipped properly so it need a good tidy up in this process and CAT5 cable is pretty easy to get alod of.



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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 176257 6-Nov-2008 09:36
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Bung good point.


If you could have seen the techo's reaction to this point about the mixture of socket types around the house.....it was as if it was all to hard and to quote "Just call faults again and someone will come back to look into it again" I just put it down to the fact that it was Saturday avo and aproaching morning tea time.


But yes I do still pay the maint fee but kinda considered after the reaction I got it would alot better to do it myself and do it completely.


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  Reply # 176258 6-Nov-2008 09:39
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Hi, the old Master/Slave sockets had issues with corrosion and noise as they degrade over time. Running Cat5 is good for the DSL runs, but old Cat3 (white sheath with two twisted pairs of orange and blue) is just fine for voice phones circuits. Once you have installed a central filter at teh first socket and run a cat5 to the DSL modem then all the remaining phone wiring is isolated from the DSL perspective, so only replace if really needed. Preferably dont staple clip cat5, but use proper plastic clips nail in clips that dont crimp the cable, this is more relevant for cat5 that you will run ethernet over.

Edit, most definitly cancel the maintenance fee, sort it yourself, its still cheaper to call an independant tech to sort any issues than keep an ongoing maintenance contract that dribbles a few $ each year from thousands of pour sods pockets into Telecom shareholders pockets.

Note that cyril7 replies early in the morning!


its the early riser that gets the best rock to lay in the sun on!


Cyril

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  Reply # 176259 6-Nov-2008 09:49
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I see that in the 1st post the internal wiring leaving the old master was "Wire wires connected out made of straded cable 2,3 and 5" but this cable didn't seem to appear at any of the other jacks so there must be a join. The jack IDC connectors are designed for solid conductor wires so if if that is stranded wiring joined somewhere, that bit should definitely be replaced.

This old guide from Telecom is still useful.

cyril7: Until I had sorted my time zone you were up long before the  sun :)

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  Reply # 176355 6-Nov-2008 17:43
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Bung, nice pdf you found -very helpful. It does state that you should be 50mm away from 230volt cables, i would recommend at least 300mm where possible to avoid emi (electro magnetic interference)

300mm is also mentioned in the electrical regulations and are what most government departments spec when running new ELV/DATA cables.


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