Skinny 4G wireless question

Forums › Spark New Zealand (including Skinny and BigPipe) › Skinny 4G wireless question

Oxy298

5 posts

Wannabe Geek

#280860 15-Jan-2021 19:16

Hi,

Live in an area that says that 4G wireless service is not available, we are currently o. ADSL 6mb/s down 1.0mb/s up.

Using a 4G modem and an external antenna ill aligned but we are able to get 25mb/s down and 20mb/s up obviously a big improvement on ADSL.

Now the guy on the phone suggested that the cell tower was at capacity and had to wait till someone cancelled to get the service..

A second house closer to town allows me to sign up with the service so the cell tower capacity is out the window.

What options do I have or is there someone within skinny that can actually understand my situation?

Thanks

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#2636263 15-Jan-2021 19:37

Unfortunately it's not as simple as what your phone says or whether someone closer to the tower can get service. The tools used by the frontline to determine availability are directly tied to the engineering and capacity planners rules.

Nothing to do with mobile networks is as simple as it can seem unfortunately :-(

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

Oxy298

5 posts

Wannabe Geek

#2636270 15-Jan-2021 20:08

Sure but they said one address could have the service and the other address couldn't because its probably on the fringe.

Surely the cell site isn't at capacity if one of the two requests can't be filled, nor apparently the modem is geo locked to that address.

There are 2 cell sites 1 is 11.72kms and the other is 7.6kms as the crow flies.

As already said putti g the Sim into the modem and a external shark fin makes the connection 5 times faster then the current adsl service we are getting.

coffeebaron

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#2636279 15-Jan-2021 20:49

Is you address rural? Also coverage for skinny will be determined by expected indoor signal quality.

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Oxy298

5 posts

Wannabe Geek

#2636284 15-Jan-2021 21:07

Yes it is rural and on one hand they said the tower was full and had to wait, the other hand said yea you can sign up with the other house but you must not move the modem.

In my opinion if I can get service then why can't I have it?

It's not like the tower has to work any harder etc...

Talkiet

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#2636286 15-Jan-2021 21:16

Oxy298: Yes it is rural and on one hand they said the tower was full and had to wait, the other hand said yea you can sign up with the other house but you must not move the modem.

In my opinion if I can get service then why can't I have it?

It's not like the tower has to work any harder etc...

Without being familiar with your exact locations I couldn't answer specifically (and I am not in the mobile part of the business), BUT whoever I would even ask would almost certainly refer to the provisioning rules that drive the decisions you've already had.

If one address is defined as rural and the other is urban, there will be different rules. Just because the service worked on your phone at a certain time DOES NOT MEAN that there is sufficient spare capacity to allow additional fixed wireless customers in that area. There are rules about how many customers and what plans they are on can be provisioned based on solid capacity planning principles.

The short answer as to why you can't have it is because there are capacity planning rules that are enforced to ensure that the service is able to maintain a certain level of performance (For FWA and mobile data services).

Personally I wish mobile towers were everywhere with infinite bandwidth so I could have moved to the house I REALLY wanted, but damn reality keeps stuffing up my cool ideas for a house in a huge 500m2 shed.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

coffeebaron

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#2636288 15-Jan-2021 21:18

Think of Skinny a little bit like those cheap airfares. Just because there are other seats available, doesn't mean they will all be cheap $49 fares. It's all about managing overall capacity and leaving some for rural who have much more limited ability to connect across all frequency bands.

Rural IT and Broadband support.

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quickymart

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#2636305 15-Jan-2021 21:58

https://broadbandmap.nz/home

If you enter your address into here, what does it say you can get? Is there a local WISP you could use if possible?

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jjnz1

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#2636340 16-Jan-2021 08:13

I had skinny 4G at our bach up until 6 months ago when we changed to VF unlimited 100GB - cheaper as we have other connections, plus VF modem performs a lot better than old skinny one, and includes VoLTE services.

We originally got Skinny 4G when they first offered the service, and like you a house 200m down the road was able to get the service, but not ours.

I successfully argued with the Skinny support team that this was due to coverage not capacity (we have very limited call coverage, and only outside with your tongue sticking out in a particular direction)

The CSR said that he would make a change and now our house is the only one in the broadband checker that says it will work. The only other houses that work as I said are 200m away directly on the waterfront of Lake Taupo, (where you get perfect cell reception).

Our setup was the OG Skinny 4G modem with 2x external antennas mounted on roof, pointed at TUH (Taupo tower).

Now we use the VF Huawei B525 With 100GB unlimited connection, and 1x dual pole external antenna, and it connects on 4G+. We no longer have slow downs during peak times (public hols). On Skinny it was not usable at peak, but I do believe this was due to their OG 4G modem only using the 700mhz 4G band, whereas on VF the modem now uses both 700 and 1800mhz at the same time.

Note, on both VF and Spark websites we are classed as rural wireless (I assume due to limited coverage). But there is no way I am paying those prices.

I just logged in now remotely, and we are over the 100GB and the connection speed has been limited for the remainder of the month but it is still fine. The guys up their are watching Netflix, and I believe the suresignal attached to this 4G connection is still working fine without speed restriction.

Hope this helps, maybe look at VF 100gb unlimited if you cannot get Skinny CSR to change your address to working, or you cannot get the house down the road to purchase on your behalf.(yes this against their ToS but I'm sure they would be happy with the income as long as they didn't find out formally?)

EDIT: I just remembered, I used an existing Skinny modem from a service I had in Wellington that was no longer needed at the time. Took it to our bach and set it up and got it running. Then I rang them to get the address switched over. This is when I had to argue. Maybe this was the difference as I already had the Skinny service up and running?

Oxy298

5 posts

Wannabe Geek

#2636358 16-Jan-2021 08:57

Yep so we are the same half the house has coverage and half is low so we are right on the fringe.

However when I put one external antenna up we was already 5 times faster than the skinny adsl we already have.

Ow if I add another antenna and memo it up (both antennas 45 degrees opposed) and lined up spot on, I would almost bet that I would get even more signal.

The fact they told me that the cell site was at full capacity for this address and not for an address 5km away, that's only 6.75kms from the furtherest tower.

Let's be realistic here, the cell site isn't working any harder to give me service at 5kms more distance, I've already proven that I can already get better service than skinny is currently offering 6mbs down and 1mbs up on adsl so again why can't I upgrade?

People say its about the planning and engineering, spectrum plans etc but again I can still get a better service but pretty expensive to keep topping up just to keep it...

Just by standing outside holding the antenna in the general direction on the ground I was already getting 25mbs down and 20mbs up so no doubt if I put two antennas up and onto the house aligned properly maybe with the use of a site master (Anritsu), almost bet a vast improvement.

RunningMan

8963 posts

Uber Geek

#2636369 16-Jan-2021 09:23

In very simple terms you are getting better service at the expense of other users of that cell site, and Spark are trying to ensure existing customers continue to have a good experience. Just because you can connect doesn't mean you should - because it is a shared resource, it's not all about you. Additionally, some sites have directional antennas so it's not just distance to tower, but also direction that is important.

jjnz1

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#2636377 16-Jan-2021 09:52

RunningMan:

In very simple terms you are getting better service at the expense of other users of that cell site, and Spark are trying to ensure existing customers continue to have a good experience. Just because you can connect doesn't mean you should - because it is a shared resource, it's not all about you. Additionally, some sites have directional antennas so it's not just distance to tower, but also direction that is important.

Ouch - I thought it was about me 🙃. The network is built around users and income, not peoples feelings.

The drivers for network expansion would include historical trends analysis based on a raft of things, as as well as population forecasts, and user usage pattern trends.

As long as you are not abusing a service, then consume what you need. If you're service is poor, complain/formalise it.

Telcos need empirical data to justify network or capacity expansion, and your normal everyday usage data is very valuable to them. (They are watching you).

@runningman your comments are sound for the 'now', but if we don't push, there is no chance we will get better service.

This sounds like a very good bar chat over a beer :)

To the OP, you have a few options:

if you want to stick with Skinny, procure a working Skinny modem and connection, get it working at your house(at your risk), then as per their website, ring them when practical to get them to update your address before they contact you. ($39-$69 mth) OR
Somehow convince the CSRs that they should change your house's eligibility OR
Consider VF and their 100GB unlimited plan ($30 /mth if you have an existing 100GB mobile connection) OR
Pay rural wireless fees through VF or Spark and get a dedicated installed service. (Between $105-165 month on contract) OR
Investigate a local WISP ($70-$200 mth ish)

RunningMan

8963 posts

Uber Geek

#2636384 16-Jan-2021 10:15

Hmm, didn't mean to sound quite that sharp sorry - just trying to explain in simple terms why Spark may refuse new FW connections in a given area even though it works when you turn it on.

cyril7

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#2636390 16-Jan-2021 10:34

Hi, without knowing the specifics i would have thought capacity allocation for fixed wireless would be tied to cell site sectors, rather than a cell site in general. Ie your house might be on one sector that is at capacity, the one down the road on another sector that has spare capacity, hence you cannot be offered a connection at this time. But I could be wrong

Cyril

jjnz1

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#2636399 16-Jan-2021 11:25

That's a good question as to how Skinny manages their capacity.

They don't lock modems/routers to cell sites, and that is reinforced on their website when they say if you move you must advise them or risk being booted.

For an area like Taupo where you have a lot of cell sites that can be seen by the modem, I wonder how capacity is planned?

Maybe it's a reactive thing - if they have capacity issues on a particular sector, then they investigate?

The inner workings of a telco! We can only guess.

Oxygen298

62 posts

Master Geek

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#2636568 16-Jan-2021 17:06

jjnz1: That's a good question as to how Skinny manages their capacity.

They don't lock modems/routers to cell sites, and that is reinforced on their website when they say if you move you must advise them or risk being booted.

For an area like Taupo where you have a lot of cell sites that can be seen by the modem, I wonder how capacity is planned?

Maybe it's a reactive thing - if they have capacity issues on a particular sector, then they investigate?

The inner workings of a telco! We can only guess.

Where i live there is 2 spark cell sites, gis.geek.nz says that the sites are 5kms apart. one has 4 transmitters and one has 7 transmitters.

Now when skinny send you a modem it will obviously goto the strongest one but wont be locked to that, now if i move the modem and use an external antenna pointed back to that cell site then there shouldn't really be any issue at all..

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