Lines Engineers Strikes

Forums › Spark New Zealand (including Skinny and BigPipe) › Lines Engineers Strikes

bender

218 posts

Master Geek

#40279 27-Aug-2009 17:16

Hi Telecom,

Why are you not suing Downer/Transfield/Visionstream for non-performance during these ridiculous strikes?

If the idiots working for your engineering contractors are being whiny that's Downer/Transfield/Visionstream's problem, they should sack them, there must be other people out there willing to actually do some work.

Frankly waiting a week for faults to be resolved because of a pack of drama queens isn't really acceptable.

That's all.

xox

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2120 posts

Uber Geek

#251063 27-Aug-2009 18:15

lol +1

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old3eyes

8995 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#251074 27-Aug-2009 18:56

You really expect many people to want to go and work for Visionstream?? You must work for Telecom.

Regards,

Old3eyes

bender

218 posts

Master Geek

#251078 27-Aug-2009 19:16

No I don't work for Telecom or any associated business.

I think Visionstream are offering a fantastic opportunity, by allowing engineers to have their own businesses they can augment their income by diversifying their customer base. For example it's not unreasonable that a linesman might also become certified as an electrician and then be able to install someone's phone line and at the same time do some electrical work for them. This way they're not relying solely on Telecom work and could achieve more income.

It's a very uneducated assumption for the engineers to think Visionstream are trying to screw them, but typical of a pack of unionised lazy slobs intent on bleeding their employer dry.

Driving past to see all the engineers striking and having a lovely little BBQ in Ponsonby a few days ago was nice, good to see them hard at work.

But either way as I said above I don't really care whether they want to sign up to Visionstream or not, they have a choice not to. It still stands that Telecom should be whipping their contractors for not delivering. It's not Telecom's problem, but their customers are suffering as a result of selfish workers refusing to do what they're paid to do.

xx

techsupport

2 posts

Wannabe Geek

#251082 27-Aug-2009 19:34

bender: If the idiots working for your engineering contractors are being whiny that's Downer/Transfield/Visionstream's problem, they should sack them.

They're already sacking them. 900 in Auckland/Northland and another 154 in the areas Transfield still has a contract for. Maybe that's the problem?

You could try sending an email to Telecoms $7 Million Dollar Man, Dr Paul Reynolds and ask if he could nip over to your place to sort out your phone.

paul.reynolds@telecom.co.nz

Good luck.

bender

218 posts

Master Geek

#251085 27-Aug-2009 19:49

Sacking isn't the same as making them redundant. By Visionstream offering them owner operator contracts they're protecting workers by encouraging them to diversify their income sources. It's inevitable as mobile networks begin to replace fixed line networks that fewer workers are going to be required.

Referring to Paul Reynolds as the "$7 million dollar man" is disrespectful and just smacks of tall poppy syndrome which unions love spreading. Why does his salary have any relevance to this? Unions completely fail to understand what hard work means. It's not even Telecom's problem so why are you attacking them?

xoxo

aperfectcircle

62 posts

Master Geek

#251087 27-Aug-2009 20:04

I have heard that more than 70 percent of engineers have signed up to the Visionstream deal, which if true suggests it's obviously not as bad as the union makes out.

Then again, once the engineers move to owner/operators they are no longer employees, and hence won't be union members anymore. Not surprising the union is up in arms... There goes a whole lot of membership fees they'll stop receiving. Which side is greedy Andrew Little of EPMU??

techsupport

2 posts

Wannabe Geek

#251090 27-Aug-2009 20:09

So you're suggesting they sack the redundant workers?

How can it not be Paul Reynolds problem? He is the CEO of Telecom. Telecom owns Chorus.

Either Telecom or Chorus are not supplying you with the service you are paying for.

I suggest you take your issue up with him because the buck stops there, utlimately.

Good luck.

macuser

2120 posts

Uber Geek

#251094 27-Aug-2009 20:33

putting xoxo at the end of your posts make you the funniest man in the world

bender

218 posts

Master Geek

#251097 27-Aug-2009 20:43

aperfectcircle: I have heard that more than 70 percent of engineers have signed up to the Visionstream deal, which if true suggests it's obviously not as bad as the union makes out.

Then again, once the engineers move to owner/operators they are no longer employees, and hence won't be union members anymore. Not surprising the union is up in arms... There goes a whole lot of membership fees they'll stop receiving. Which side is greedy Andrew Little of EPMU??

It's 70% of the required workers (they don't necessarily require the same number of staff as previously).

Basically unions behave like children screaming and yelling for more money. When you take a job you're not forced to accept it, so if you don't like what it pays, the mature way to go is to ask for a raise and if the response from your employer isn't what you want, go and work elsewhere. It costs employers a lot of money to train replacement staff, and a number of months before a new staff member knows the ropes and how things "work" in a new position. On that alone it's not in employers' interests to willy nilly treat staff like crap. It's appalling that an organisation like the EPMU exists and does nothing but abuse employers and lull vulnerable workers on the lower end of the pay scale into paying fees to be "represented". Aren't the non-union linesmen paid more anyway?

x

hellonearthisman

1819 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#251161 28-Aug-2009 04:45

Telecom is effectively, cutting the workers wages and is shifting all the job related risks to to the worker. The workers have to do their lines job, they also have to run the books for a small business,
that's a lot of extra work and business skills that is piled onto the line works job and for less money.

Telecom made them redundant and now the workers have to buy there old jobs back. And they have no certainty that they will be given any work at all once they sign up, they wont be able to forecast earnings or costs.

Big corporations use contractors to help keep there hands clean. If the mess up then they just blame the contractor for the problem, the classic passing the buck. Telecom doesn't have a problem, it only change contractors, forcing one business to make all it workers redundant and force them to resign new contacts with a new contractor. If Telecom did that directly, the would be in the courts so fast you'd think they where on fibre.

Telecom has bypassed the role of negotiation with their workers/unions by the use of contractors.

The workers are left with the option of, take on this new work/contact or nothing.

BioNz

80 posts

Master Geek

#251163 28-Aug-2009 04:53

i dont know when they would be able to do other work outside of the contract as it stats they must be there from 7am to 7pm 7days a week. what other work can you do outside of those times?

if they say no to any work then they will have there contract terminated.

visionstream have been going through employment consultants like it was a fire sale. my understanding they work off commission and as no one is signing up they just cant make any money.

the only people i know of signing up are either work permit people how are offered a wage. the apprentices who are also offered a wage and the odd comms company whois looking to do some of the good work. vs dont want big companies doing alot of the work as that would make there model look like it wasnt working.

i dont know how some of the guys will make good money when some of the codes require them to most paying for the install as the materials cost more than the codes.

GeekGuy

566 posts

Ultimate Geek

#251215 28-Aug-2009 09:41

Visionstream have been operating in Aus for years.... there are alot more negative comments then positive around from people that have worked for them over the years.

gwh

73 posts

Master Geek

#251250 28-Aug-2009 11:30

Bender, I'm not going to comment on anything you've said about the striking staff. However, as an ex-downer edi tech (left last year) I can assure you the potential for these people retraining as electricians is virtually nil unless they work for an electrician and they can do the required work to gain their practical experience. If Visionstream do in fact only have 70% of the staff of Downer or Transfield in the same areas then their subcontractors are going to be extremely busy doing Telecom work and will be lucky to fit other work in.

I understand you might be frustrated about the time to get faults fixed or services provisioned but these people have a legitimate concern.
You are correct that mobile networks are hosting more and more services but the reality is that the fixed line network in just about any country in the world carries far more services than the mobile network. That reality isn't going to change in the working life of many of these workers who are in their 40s-50s.
I don't know if you are self-employed, own your own business or work for someone else but surely you can grasp that these people actually may not want to own their own businesses with all the attendant requirements and are actually happy working for wages.

Oblivian

6946 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

#251251 28-Aug-2009 11:30

The last couple of posts are more on the right path. Its not all a whole EWWW VISIONSTREAM! thing.

This is not the only reason for striking, theres a couple of issues in place:

As stated the (currently) north island based work requires the need to purchase yourself into a business, sign up and give your soul away with the added risk of being stumped with the overheads 2 weeks down the road is only 1 aspect.

They also have no redundancy compensation.. I'm sure most of you out there have at least some form of payback be it 2 weeks wage or other.

The larger corporation in question here 9 or so years ago dropped all their own employed technicians in favour of a contracting basis. Along comes tenders to do the work, ala transfield/systemtech/small businesses in towns.

They of course have to go in with the lowest bar possible to get the contract while making a small profit, or be faced with the "x can do it for this, can you do it for or lose it..." and end up undercutting themselves.. which is where everyone is now at.

They have x number of employees, Costing them a fixed amount in wages etc each month. The more recent contracts are likely like we have here, where the one paying for it specifies a set amount per job. You could spend 5mins on the job and make $30 profit, you could spend 5hrs on the job and instantly the contractor has lost 3x over. Leaving them no way to support the number of staff there, regardless of the workload. Its not like the real world, the contractor emplyers are not being paid per hour like their workers wage is.

And here we are now. The contractor employers have no choice but to jut jobs to lower costs back under the bar that has been set by "the man" These guys, mostly 35+ who have been in the trade for (like my father since NZPostal group ran the communications industry) Their jobs are on the line And after all the years of doing the work and keeping everything running they are faced with no kind of thanks (for about the 4th time)

Don't just look at this as the aussies moving in and workers having a whine over it. Theres more than meets the eye.

Im in a totally different job and im hanging by a thread, purely as we are contract based and a lot who we work for are cutting back on requirements and costs they are willing to pay.

Ragnor

8085 posts

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Trusted

#251259 28-Aug-2009 11:39

gwh:
I don't know if you are self-employed, own your own business or work for someone else but surely you can grasp that these people actually may not want to own their own businesses with all the attendant requirements and are actually happy working for wages.

Is there anything stopping groups of these guys forming their own business together and then sub-contracting to visionstream and/or whoever needs their skills?

If there really is a shortage of skilled lines engineers wouldn't visionstream have to deal with them?

From an outside point of view it seems like there are good options but it's just resistance to change and lack of imagination in the way...

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