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# 41444 16-Sep-2009 13:20
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Hi folks.

Couple of months ago my friend asked me which 3G provider should he go for mobile broadband. I told him go VF as they had a free BB until end of the year deal running at that time. His application was declined since he is on a student Visa and contract was for 24 months I think. Visa given to him was only for 2 years so VF said you need spare 6 months on top of that. I told him then sign up to a no term, you will pay extra monthly but you can disconnect anytime you wish.

Anywho he called me 4 days later and said that Telecom Store is offering him 3GB for $85/month and he only has to pay $39 for the stick and it will be his. He said Telecom store is happy with his 24 months visa since the lady told him that it will be open term, no contract and you can disconnect anytime. I asked my friend again and again to make sure to ask the lady clearly that it is open term, no contract before you sign any paper work. He did ask and signed the paper work and confirmed with the sales lady at Telecom store that it is open term, no contract.

Now the place he is staying at with his mate's, have got broadband installed with homeline. He said, he does not need the Telecom 3G service anymore and will go to the store and disconnect.

Today he rang me up and said he went back to the same store, the sales lady that sold him the 3G stick and the service has since left and the manager is saying that you signed a 12 month contract and would have to fork out $500 to disconnect. He did argue for about 30 minutes with the manager that it's your sales lady fault for signing me into a contract when I told her again and again I need an open term and no contract. They would not listen to him at all.

Does he have any rights? I know he is an idiot for signing a piece of paper without reading it thorughly and trusting the sales lady outright.

Thanks




Do whatever you want to do man.

  

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  # 256118 16-Sep-2009 13:29
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What does the contract say? Open term, or 12 months.

That is what counts.









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  # 256120 16-Sep-2009 13:36
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Not 100% sure myself but when I did ask him over the phone today he said it does say "12 months".

I will go over to this place tonight and have read of the paperwork that he signed myself.

If it does says 12months (most likely it does), is there any way of getting out of it considering that the sales lady did lie to him to get extra $$$ from commission for signing him into a 12 month period?

Thanks




Do whatever you want to do man.

  

 
 
 
 


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  # 256123 16-Sep-2009 13:58
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Well you can't say that she lied to him just to get extra commission that is unjustified speculation.

Your friend should have read what he was signing to corroborate what the lady was telling him, it's as simple as that. If he was that adamant he wanted to be on an open term plan he needed to read it.

I have no sympathy for people that don't read what they sign and then complain about it.

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  # 256124 16-Sep-2009 14:12
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billgates: Not 100% sure myself but when I did ask him over the phone today he said it does say "12 months".

I will go over to this place tonight and have read of the paperwork that he signed myself.

If it does says 12months (most likely it does), is there any way of getting out of it considering that the sales lady did lie to him to get extra $$$ from commission for signing him into a 12 month period?

Thanks

The contract is a written one between Telecom New Zealand Ltd and the customer.
The customer signed the contract.
The contract is valid and legal.

From experience, I know for a FACT that a LOT of people can have contract terms clearly explained to them, they will read, and sign, then later will simply disavow all knowledge of said contract, and claim lies/misleading/misrepresentation/breach of faith/breach of CGA/breach of random made up laws.

I was an Account Manager, Sales Manager & Store Manager selling Telecom Mobile products, and never did a single dodgy deal, and never misrepresented a single contract, but had MANY clients claim a few months later that we lied and signed them up to a contract without their consent or signature.

"I never signed anything. Why would I?"

*Present signed contract to them*

"Well I didn't know what I was signing."

*Remind them that I explain contract term VERY clearly to EVERY customer verbally before they sign*

"It shouldn't apply to me, because now I don't want to be in the contract."

^^^^^^ Honestly, this sort of thing happens sooooo often. They lie, get caught out in their lie with cold hard evidence (i.e. signed contract clearly stating contract term), then start acting like 4 year olds.

In summary - if you sign it, you are bound by it. Tell your mate to stop whining, and basically... man up.

P.S. I am no longer associated with Telecom or any dealers/partners.









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  # 256128 16-Sep-2009 14:21
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Thanks guys. He is an idiot for not reading up the paperwork. Will hit him on the head tonight :-)




Do whatever you want to do man.

  

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  # 256130 16-Sep-2009 14:24
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billgates: Thanks guys. He is an idiot for not reading up the paperwork. Will hit him on the head tonight :-)


He might need some lessons...

M:  Hello, I want to... Ooooh!
H:   No, no, no. Hold your head like this, then go Waaah. Try it again.
M:  uuuwwhh!!
H:   Better, Better, but Waah, Waah! Put your hand there.
M:  No.
H:   Now..
M:  Waaaaah!!!
H:   Good, Good! That's it.
M:  Stop hitting me!!
H:  What?
M:  Stop hitting me!!
H:   Stop hitting you?
M:  Yes!
H:   Why did you come in here then?
M:   I wanted to complain.
H:   Oh no, that's next door. It's being-hit-on-the-head lessons in here.
M:  What a stupid concept.







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  # 256137 16-Sep-2009 14:50
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corksta: I have no sympathy for people that don't read what they sign and then complain about it.

Generally I don't either, but the guy is a foreigner - the original post quite clearly says he's here on a student visa.  It doesn't go on to describe where he's from or his level of comprehension when it comes to dealing with contracts written in English legal-ese.

I think that missing piece of information should be borne in mind before completely trashing the guy.

Having said that, he should have taken someone with him to help him with the purchase - someone who could have said "FFS - don't sign that!!"

Harsh lesson, but one well learnt.

 
 
 
 


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  # 256138 16-Sep-2009 14:53
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tonyhughes: 
The contract is a written one between Telecom New Zealand Ltd and the customer.
The customer signed the contract.
The contract is valid and legal.



Any verbal representation of the product or service can form part of any intention to form a contract. While it is important for a customer to read a contract, they are also perfectly reasonable to rely on the advice of the salesperson as to it's content, and the FTA/CGA/SoG/Illegal Contracts acts could potentially all apply in a situation where a customer was mislead/misinformed.


While I'm sure there are many cases where customers will plead ignorance to what they are signing up for, there are also many cases where customers have been (usually unintentionally) mislead by retail salespeople, or the customer simply gets confused between the various different options. I wouldn't be surprised at some miscommunication if he is a foreign student (perhaps might have been some english difficulties?).


In this instance it sounds as though the customer had clear intentions of not signing a term contract given his student visa and experience with vodafone. I would recommend writing a formal letter to an area manager or the customer resolutions group (I think) to see if he gets anywhere, clearly stating the intentions he had when entering the contract and what he was lead to believe by the salesperson.


He might have some luck, he might not. Situations like this are why it's very important to read and clearly understand any contract you sign.




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  # 256182 16-Sep-2009 15:57
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Assuming your friend is telling the truth then when the salesprson said: "Open term"

What your friend said: "Ok, thanks"

What your friend should have said "Ok, Thanks, could you show me where it says that on the contract please."


Your friend getting that much of a subsidy on the tstick means he was defitniely signing up to a term contract.

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  # 256215 16-Sep-2009 17:10
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mushion22: Any verbal representation of the product or service can form part of any intention to form a contract. While it is important for a customer to read a contract, they are also perfectly reasonable to rely on the advice of the salesperson as to it's content, and the FTA/CGA/SoG/Illegal Contracts acts could potentially all apply in a situation where a customer was mislead/misinformed.


If this is correct (I have no idea I'm not a lawyer) then it sets up all sorts of loopholes where a customer can negate a contract purely over advice received, even if they did or didn't receive any.  As with any contract, if you don't understand it, put it in front of your lawyer and get them to check it out for you.

mushion22: Situations like this are why it's very important to read and clearly understand any contract you sign.


+1, couldn't agree more.

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  # 256288 16-Sep-2009 21:39
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He could always just not pay and leave the country... IMO its outright stupid to try to enter a contract with a non permanant resident for that exact reason.




Richard rich.ms



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  # 256325 16-Sep-2009 23:14
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richms: He could always just not pay and leave the country... IMO its outright stupid to try to enter a contract with a non permanant resident for that exact reason.


ummm yeah not such a good idea. Bad credit history with banks in future and what not and seriously it's not worth leaving the country for $500.

I read his paper work tonight and it does clearly states '12 months'. I gave him my condolences as a good friend.

Although Telecom did suggest him to sell/pass on his contract on Trade me. So he is going to try that.




Do whatever you want to do man.

  

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  # 256350 17-Sep-2009 06:48
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nate:
mushion22: Any verbal representation of the product or service can form part of any intention to form a contract. While it is important for a customer to read a contract, they are also perfectly reasonable to rely on the advice of the salesperson as to it's content, and the FTA/CGA/SoG/Illegal Contracts acts could potentially all apply in a situation where a customer was mislead/misinformed.


If this is correct (I have no idea I'm not a lawyer) then it sets up all sorts of loopholes where a customer can negate a contract purely over advice received, even if they did or didn't receive any.  As with any contract, if you don't understand it, put it in front of your lawyer and get them to check it out for you.



Claiming this and proving it as very different things.

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  # 256399 17-Sep-2009 10:12
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nate:
mushion22: Any verbal representation of the product or service can form part of any intention to form a contract. While it is important for a customer to read a contract, they are also perfectly reasonable to rely on the advice of the salesperson as to it's content, and the FTA/CGA/SoG/Illegal Contracts acts could potentially all apply in a situation where a customer was mislead/misinformed.


If this is correct (I have no idea I'm not a lawyer) then it sets up all sorts of loopholes where a customer can negate a contract purely over advice received, even if they did or didn't receive any.  As with any contract, if you don't understand it, put it in front of your lawyer and get them to check it out for you.




Contract law... gotta love it. I'm more referring to a retail sales situation, where there are obligations for the salesperson to correctly represent a product. Still, to have a binding contract there must be intention, capacity, consideration etc etc...

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