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208 posts

Master Geek
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Topic # 27333 22-Oct-2008 14:59

We now have forum sections for nearly every ITC "Product": Windoze, Mac, Linux, iPhone, etc, etc; except for one of the oldest that's been around for years (since day 1, literally) & is still widely in use: Free & Open Source Software (FOSS)

This is an area that cust accross the OS/platform boundaries, touches & leads on many fronts (Web, SQL, security, productivity, server, desktop, mobile), but is poorly understood, and does not anways get the attention it deserves

Can we please have a sectrion that addresses this need, regardless of members personal "orientation"?




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208 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 172788 22-Oct-2008 15:03

A PS: I think/feel that this topic is especially relevant now, considering the current "economic climate"




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  Reply # 172793 22-Oct-2008 15:21
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I don't think FOSS is a "product" but a way. I personally think most of the discussions should go either in our IT Pro forum or platform specific forum - when available. 

Ah, and I noticed you wrote "Windoze". Why not write something "funny" with the other names?








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Master Geek
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  Reply # 172811 22-Oct-2008 16:18

I think that's exactly the point I'm trying to make: FOSS is not purely the domain of IT Professionals, or to any platform in particular for that matter (least of all GNU/Linux), but "belongs" to the community

FOSS, besides being a movement/philosophy, should also be considered a "product", insofar as it is a "product" that offers users an alternative to the status-quo, the freedom to choose & make up their own minds on how to use their hardware & software, as opposed to being dictated to from the other side of the world (literally)

These are fundamental principals on which technologies, like the internet, was founded. These are liberties what will get taken/stolen away from us, lest we are vigilant & actively fight for it. And people cannot fight for something they do not know, or understand.
That's why we need the exposure.

If people want to pay for the software (as the argument of "you get what you pay for" goes), they are welcome to CHOOSE to pay/donate to the manufacturers/developers, or subscribe to a SLA support contract. Difference is then that they WILL actually get what they pay for.
The choice is theirs to decide

BTW. "Windoze" & "M$" is the norm used in the pier-group I choose to associate with. This might be be construed as mildly offensive/derogatory, but the purpose is to signal my disrespect for what they stand for, and to foster debate. (The alternative would be to refer to something small & flaccid, but there may be minors on these forums; this is restraint on my part)





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Reply # 172847 22-Oct-2008 18:26
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freakalad: BTW. "Windoze" & "M$" is the norm used in the pier-group I choose to associate with. This might be be construed as mildly offensive/derogatory, but the purpose is to signal my disrespect for what they stand for, and to foster debate. (The alternative would be to refer to something small & flaccid, but there may be minors on these forums; this is restraint on my part)


This isn't your peer-group so how about using their proper company names?  You've obviously been around for at least some time (with 78 posts) and you should know that if we want companies to participate here, we respect them by using their proper names.

Although, feel free to continue using your terms above, bannination is not normally far behind.

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Reply # 172851 22-Oct-2008 18:33
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freakalad: BTW. "Windoze" & "M$" is the norm used in the pier-group I choose to associate with. This might be be construed as mildly offensive/derogatory, but the purpose is to signal my disrespect for what they stand for, and to foster debate. (The alternative would be to refer to something small & flaccid, but there may be minors on these forums; this is restraint on my part)


You probably mean "peer" not "pier". But as Nate says, here on Geekzone we like to give companies respect because that's how we get respect back. So please use MS and Windows instead when posting in this forum.






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Master Geek
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Reply # 173143 23-Oct-2008 18:40

Respect is something that must be earned; it should not granted with de-facto or without merit

Redmond's lost mine a long time ago! (as has it many others') Balmer at the helm will probably not improve the situation

I suppose you're right, nate, in that you are probably not my peer-group.
I tend to be critical of those I choose to associate with, as I expect them to do the same
(BTW. I tend to count "geeks/nerds/dorks/guru's/fundi's" as my peers (as the majority of my friends are), and I would've expected the "Geekzone" forum to be the relevant area to request a FOSS-dedicated area)

If I hurt you feelings in any way, please accept my apologies (and I am being sincere here), as I usually act the part of antagonist/devil's advocate, and this could be seen as offensive to some individual's sensibilities. You're entitled to your opinions; I would ask that you allow me mine, please

But inflammatory comments such as yours, which I could choose to interpret as "you can say what you want, as long as we find it agreeable", or "don't [*replaced with offend*] our sponsors/[*peplaced with great-spaghetti-monster-in-the-sky*]" only goes to bolster my argument for a dedicated area to address these issues; so that we may vent our frustration, get /share advise, or simply chew the fat, without having to worry about stepping on anyone's toes.
If they sponsor this forums, does that mean they are then the de-facto owners of it's contents? Are we not allowed to be critical?

The disdain I hold for these "entities" is shared by many in these forums, for numerous reasons, and banning me for speaking my mind constitutes censorship. If this is not the area for this rhetoric, then please provide us one

Look, if you're going to ban me, odds are you've already got your mind set on it, and it's probably bound to happen sooner or later anyhow.
(BTW. why is it "hands-off" on this "entity", but everyone else is pretty-much fair game?)

FREE & OPEN source software is not merely an arbitrary arrangement of 1's & 0's, but a philosophy.
Take the bits you like & leave the bits you don't. It's about choice - YOUR choice

BUT! This is getting OT.
The request was simply for a area specifically to FOSS (maybe GNU), to counterbalance numerous areas dedicated to proprietaries ("Pro's" & laymen)




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  Reply # 173149 23-Oct-2008 18:48
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I am really offended with your post. And banning you is not censorship. It's my right to simply make sure we don't have trolls around.

Your assessment that we prevent people posting something because we are following the orders of our "sponsors/masters" just show why I am reluctant to give space to this kind of attitude around here.

Sponsorship doesn't mean anything in this context. You are trying to pass as a victim and in the process you just manage to make more people feel like not having you here.

I know some very good people in the Open Source movement. But a feel more vocal people, those who don't know when to shut up are the ones that make it harder for outsiders to have any sympaty for your ideals.

Every time we ban someone a group will say "oh that's because they are being paid". Under this flawed logic we have been paid by all major companies in New Zealand. But no one comes to the conclusion that we are just banning trolls.

People like you never gain anything with this kind of posts.




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Reply # 173150 23-Oct-2008 18:54
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By the way, I just asked you to call companies by their real name, and you give me all this offensive post.

And it's not like we don't support Open Source and other initiatives. We post about SHDH, NZOS Awards, Software Freedom Day. And you then accuse me of being paid by some company.

Unbelievable.





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  Reply # 173156 23-Oct-2008 19:19
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freakalad

On reviewing this thread I had a conversation with freitasm about the way things went down.
Whilst there's plenty out there who may agree with the 'windoze' line of thought, it does have to be admitted that it is a disrespectful term.

Suggest that rather than making waves (which I don't know that you originally intended to do) and then seeing all sides (including yours) get defensive (which is far from constructive), simply use the correct terms, and keep your positions reasoned and reasonable. (ala Agree to differ, despite your views).

That way everyone is kept happy. The F/OSS community is not served by those who treat the 'alternatives' disrespectfully, just as it is not served by the 'alternatives' badmouthing F/OSS options.

Just my 2c.

BJ.

PS: There is a Linux forum, I noticed. Noting the existing way that the forums are categorised i'm not sure a seperate F/OSS forum is necessarily called for... freitasm indicated to me he'd be happy to create such a forum, but personally i'd like to see the case for it first, esp as it compares to the existing subject categories available here.






208 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 173158 23-Oct-2008 19:28

Thank you for your comment, and I'll give credit where it's due. The reference to the term was merely to indicate my aversion for those institutions, as opposed to flyingoff on a tangent every time (there are several more derogatery terms that could have been used, as I'm sure you're aware, but enough of that now)

It was not my intent to start a furore, but simply to distinguish F/OSS from Linux per-se, as it should not really be considered the exclusive domain of gLinux users. This approach may do more harm than good (as my comments have demonstrated)

I would like to take this opportunity to publicly apologise to Mr.Freitas & nate, as thing DID seem to get a bit out of control there, and would also like to thank them for their contributions as noted in Freitas' post.
I was out of line




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Master Geek
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  Reply # 173161 23-Oct-2008 19:39

[last of the crazy rants; no more]

My comments stem from from deep-felt anger & frustration at [MUTE ON RANT]

I'm not a victim; I'm  [MUTE ON RANT] off
[MUTE ON RANT]

I am willing to concede points where there is merit, and I would invite all to poke holes in my logic.
Constructive debate should be vibrant, and absolutely HAS to attack some fundamentally held assumptions. Complacency in the status-quo makes
[MUTE ON RANT] of us all.
Question everything!

I have not attacked any individual here, nor has it ever been my intent.
But maybe it time to be more vocal in favour of F/OSS. [MUTE ON RANT]

I may choose  [MUTE ON RANT] at being labelled a "troll", but in this case it may very well be true. [MUTE ON RANT]
If businesses interests are being represented, as it in all validity can, so should space be mate for counter-arguments. [MUTE ON RANT] be a neutral platform,  [MUTE ON RANT] advocate free speech

But I thank you for you comments
(I assure you this was not a direction I wanted to take this discussion, but I will argue my point. Believe it or not, I HAVE toned down my comments)

P.S. I have NEVER insinuated that anyone, personally, are being paid.
My argument was that just because somebody sponsors the forum, does not mean that they should deserve any exemptions or special treatment.
Neutrality should be maintained [poke self in eye]




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  Reply # 173166 23-Oct-2008 19:50
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freakalad: My argument was that just because somebody sponsors the forum, does not mean that they should deserve any exemptions or special treatment. 

Useful debate here at Geekzone is maintained through clear rules and guidelines as to what is acceptable and what is not.  You would get the exact same treatment had you made up names for any of the open source products.

The point here isn't that you mocked Microsoft specifically, it's the fact you mocked a company's name.  The exact same thing would happen had you mentioned Telecom, IBM, MySQL etc.  Accusing freitasm of back handed practices isn't going to win you any favours either.

We want to continue to have all vendors, regardless of open source or not, participate here.  If we were to let everyone make up names for companies in discussions, I doubt anyone from those companies would participate.

Appreciated your response, look forward to seeing more of your discussions around on the forums.

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