VDSL speeds

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Talkiet

4793 posts

Uber Geek

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#1513071 14-Mar-2016 14:28

NonprayingMantis:[snip]

Personally, I think making master filters mandatory on every VDSL connection is a terrible idea - it would just be a sweet money spinner for Chorus as they charge $300+GST to your ISP to get one installed (and then they pass this onto you through higher monthly charges of course), even though a much more reasonable cost would be in the region of $150 (as charged by coffee baron).

Not to mention that there are tens of thousands of households who already have one installed, and many more who will get only a very marginal benefit as they already have decent wiring, so forcing ISPs to re-installing it again for 100% of VDSL orders is just a huge waste of time and money.

Some of your points are accurate in isolation, but you neglect to mention the downstream support costs of customers that don't get a full install ("Master filter"). Now as an individual user you are often almost 100% insulated from ever seeing (or having to pay for) this cost - but as an ISP, it's a major factor.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

dylanp

840 posts

Ultimate Geek

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#1513073 14-Mar-2016 14:34

woodson:

@dejadeadnz We were going to go with 30/10 fibre but as we rent it was a bit of a pain having to gt everything ok'ed with the landlord. More than likely going to go with VDSL now where we could be getting 46/10 - and for $5 cheaper than our current ADSL bundle. Win win!

If you're in UFB coverage then definitely try to get UFB. Good argument for landlords is that it's a free upgrade to their property that makes it more future proof and more appealing to current and future tenants. Also, we have a promotion at the moment where you can get 100Mb/s for the same price as 30Mb/s. http://www.vodafone.co.nz/internet/package-builder/

dejadeadnz

2394 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#1513090 14-Mar-2016 15:09

woodson:

@dejadeadnz We were going to go with 30/10 fibre but as we rent it was a bit of a pain having to gt everything ok'ed with the landlord. More than likely going to go with VDSL now where we could be getting 46/10 - and for $5 cheaper than our current ADSL bundle. Win win!

You may well get even better upload speed than 10. Speaking as both a landlord and a tenant (we own rentals in the regions and rent in Auckland), landlords rarely cause issues when it comes to wanting fibre. It's the technophobe neighbours that you might have to worry about. With the recent changes in consent rules, things might be a lot easier for you. But if you just don't want to deal with it (I didn't want to go to war with this silly neighbour of ours) and want a fast process, go with VDSL.

Jaxar

383 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1513092 14-Mar-2016 15:12

While I agree from a logic point of view some landlords can be willfully ignorant. My landlord is convinced Spark is the only ISP capable of providing service in our area because a door to door salesman told her friend this when they signed up. My 10 years working across 3 ISP and being able to teach people the basics of how the different technologies work does not count apparently.

I can relate to the OP wanting to avoid the hassle. Still Dylan has a point worth a try.

Please note: I have a professional bias towards Vodafone.

NonprayingMantis

6434 posts

Uber Geek

#1515532 18-Mar-2016 11:49

Talkiet:

NonprayingMantis:[snip]

Personally, I think making master filters mandatory on every VDSL connection is a terrible idea - it would just be a sweet money spinner for Chorus as they charge $300+GST to your ISP to get one installed (and then they pass this onto you through higher monthly charges of course), even though a much more reasonable cost would be in the region of $150 (as charged by coffee baron).

Not to mention that there are tens of thousands of households who already have one installed, and many more who will get only a very marginal benefit as they already have decent wiring, so forcing ISPs to re-installing it again for 100% of VDSL orders is just a huge waste of time and money.

Some of your points are accurate in isolation, but you neglect to mention the downstream support costs of customers that don't get a full install ("Master filter"). Now as an individual user you are often almost 100% insulated from ever seeing (or having to pay for) this cost - but as an ISP, it's a major factor.

Cheers - N

How much is that really going to cost though? It's not hard to tell if a customer actually needs a master filter once they are actually connected up and you can see the sync rate, traffic patterns etc.

for the customers who have a genuine issue, i.e. getting very low or no DSL sync, then maybe this generates 2-3 calls into the call centre before the fault can be diagnosed and fixed by way of installing a master filter. So maybe an extra $50 for those customers in customer service costs incurred on top of the cost of getting the filter installed at a later date.

How many customers will that be? 20%? 30%

(Remember I'm not talking about customers who 'only' get 40Mbps without a filter instead of 45Mbps. I'm talking about customers who have genuine issues i.e. get <15Mbps or large numbers of dropouts or similar faults.)

so on one hand you have incurring a $300 charge for 100% of customers if you are forced to give them out to everyone.

on the other hand you have a slightly increased cost of $350 for 20% of customers who need one ($300 for the filter and $50 in call centre costs) but a $0 cost for the other 80% who's connection is totally fine without one.

so maybe it's not 20% that truly need a master filter. What if it was 50%? even then It would still be cheaper to give them out only to customers who need them.

so it makes perfect sense why more and more ISPs aren't giving out free master filters for every customer.

The idea of forcing them to do so is an insane idea, and would just result in higher prices for customers with very little real benefit.

Talkiet

4793 posts

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Trusted

#1515553 18-Mar-2016 12:11

NonprayingMantis:[snip]

I'm sorry I can't specifically comment on percentages or cost per customer call, but it's my informed opinion that your numbers don't stack up.

I'm not saying EVERY connection NEEDS a master filter, but I am saying that it's my current view that defaulting to not installing them is a less preferred choice to installing by default.

(That might change if the support economics change, or customers all of a sudden get way way way better at accurately reporting faults, or if the price of the installs change - but those are all what ifs and maybes)

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.