[TelstraClear] It's a long way from Wellington to Citylink!

Forums › One NZ (including Farmside) › [TelstraClear] It's a long way from Wellington to Citylink!

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Ragnor

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#247716 17-Aug-2009 15:17

Presumably Telecom aren't keen on paying to peer at APE/WIX (CityLink) and CityLink aren't keen on paying to peer with Telecom.

Sounds more tragic than hilarious to me.

lchiu7

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#247767 17-Aug-2009 16:21

And neither is TCL willing to peer for some strange reason (could it be a cost issue?)

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#247788 17-Aug-2009 16:54

Yes Telstra de-peered from WIX first in 2005 then Telecom did the same later on.

NZCoderGuy

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#247797 17-Aug-2009 17:28

It appears that World xChange is also APE?

Tracing route to www.citylink.co.nz [202.7.6.20]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 3 ms 1 ms 1 ms 10.1.1.1
2 47 ms 57 ms 41 ms ip-58-28-15-31.wxnz.net [58.28.15.31]
3 47 ms 52 ms 40 ms ip-58-28-13-83.wxnz.net [58.28.13.83]
4 47 ms 40 ms 41 ms ge-0-0-0-akl-core2.wxnz.net [58.28.8.3]
5 47 ms 42 ms 40 ms anycast2.ape.net.nz [192.203.154.58]
6 47 ms 40 ms 41 ms anycast.ape.net.nz [192.203.154.5]
7 47 ms 41 ms 41 ms 202.7.6.20

Trace complete.

My ADSL2+ connection from (20km north of WGTN CDB) - hits auckland then back down.. not so bad.. ping isnt too bad either..

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Screeb

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#247813 17-Aug-2009 18:20

lchiu7: And neither is TCL willing to peer for some strange reason (could it be a cost issue?)

No, it's an excuse to charge ALL traffic the same (ie no cut rate for national traffic), since they can say "look, some national traffic actually gets routed overseas, therefore the customer would just be confused as to whether or not the connection was actually national". Well, I suppose that DOES come down to cost in the end, but yeah.

exportgoldman

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#247819 17-Aug-2009 18:24

Yeah peering is truly broken in New Zealand, TelstraClear realised they could make some good money by de-peering, raising a near riot in internal IT, but doing it anyways.

Telecom talk about getting back in the peering game but not actually doing anything. Hopefully PaulR will get interested enough to sort it out. Meh.

I didn't know Citylink hosted TVNZ ondemand

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LennonNZ

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#247822 17-Aug-2009 18:29

Screeb:
lchiu7: And neither is TCL willing to peer for some strange reason (could it be a cost issue?)

No, it's an excuse to charge ALL traffic the same (ie no cut rate for national traffic), since they can say "look, some national traffic actually gets routed overseas, therefore the customer would just be confused as to whether or not the connection was actually national". Well, I suppose that DOES come down to cost in the end, but yeah.

Can you give a real world example of data going overseas to get to another NZ physical hosted website?

Thanks

exportgoldman

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#247826 17-Aug-2009 18:33

LennonNZ: Can you give a real world example of data going overseas to get to another NZ physical hosted website?

Thanks

Ummmmm <stares> How about www.citylink.co.nz!

Also to note whoever mentioned Telecom Local peering, this document

http://www.telecomwholesale.co.nz/f542,257018/257018_23640_local_peering_A4_3-0.pdf

Mentions that local peering doesn't get routed for some types of customers (big corporates, dialup etc) and <drum roll> static IP connections!

Interesting...

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Screeb

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#247832 17-Aug-2009 18:51

LennonNZ:
Screeb:
lchiu7: And neither is TCL willing to peer for some strange reason (could it be a cost issue?)

No, it's an excuse to charge ALL traffic the same (ie no cut rate for national traffic), since they can say "look, some national traffic actually gets routed overseas, therefore the customer would just be confused as to whether or not the connection was actually national". Well, I suppose that DOES come down to cost in the end, but yeah.

Can you give a real world example of data going overseas to get to another NZ physical hosted website?

Thanks

Really now? Are you reading this thread? Did you even read the title? If "Citylink" isn't specific enough, TVNZ video is hosted by Citylink, which was also pointed out in this thread, and sure enough, it does indeed come in via the US.

LennonNZ

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#247838 17-Aug-2009 18:55

That machine tracerouted in the 1st post is not in New Zealand.. It is anycast around different ISP's/Places in NZ and Overseas.

Unless routing is broken, it is usually a fault with data going from NZ -> Overseas -> Back to NZ.

TelstraClear "peering" and this are completely different issues.

NZCoderGuy

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#247854 17-Aug-2009 19:25

hmmm i have a static ip with World xChange - one that i have to (well work does) pay for.. although i dont know how that would affect the routing..

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Screeb

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#247862 17-Aug-2009 19:37

LennonNZ: That machine tracerouted in the 1st post is not in New Zealand.. It is anycast around different ISP's/Places in NZ and Overseas.

Unless routing is broken, it is usually a fault with data going from NZ -> Overseas -> Back to NZ.

TelstraClear "peering" and this are completely different issues.

It's only anycast like that BECAUSE of the lack of peering.

lchiu7

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#247873 17-Aug-2009 19:48

LennonNZ: That machine tracerouted in the 1st post is not in New Zealand.. It is anycast around different ISP's/Places in NZ and Overseas.

Unless routing is broken, it is usually a fault with data going from NZ -> Overseas -> Back to NZ.

TelstraClear "peering" and this are completely different issues.

The point of the post was, because of lack of peering, Citylink have to create a US mirror so that TCL customers (and apparently Telecom customers) don't have to go to the US and then back to get to what is a NZ site. They just have to suffer a trip across Southern Cross whereas other customers (see the traceroute's posted) can just bounce across a few hosts locally.

Without the US mirror, then indeed you would have to hit US and come back.

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LennonNZ

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#247888 17-Aug-2009 20:16

Citylink don't advertise these ranges from NZ -> Overseas. Only overseas -> Overseas and NZ (In various places) -> NZ so the data won't go NZ -> Overseas- > NZ

Citylink are a content provider mostly and don't advertise these ranges via Telecom or TelstraClear or anyone in the "national routing table" and want people to connect to their commercial peering exchanges (APE,WIX etc) to get their (citylink's and its customers ) data. This is just how citylink are. its their commercial decision.

Both sides do what they want to do and both most likely have commercial decisions for the way they do things.

Screeb

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#247910 17-Aug-2009 20:54

LennonNZ: Citylink don't advertise these ranges from NZ -> Overseas. Only overseas -> Overseas and NZ (In various places) -> NZ so the data won't go NZ -> Overseas- > NZ

Citylink are a content provider mostly and don't advertise these ranges via Telecom or TelstraClear or anyone in the "national routing table" and want people to connect to their commercial peering exchanges (APE,WIX etc) to get their (citylink's and its customers ) data. This is just how citylink are. its their commercial decision.

Both sides do what they want to do and both most likely have commercial decisions for the way they do things.

I really have no idea what you're trying to say here. No one is putting any blame on Citylink. Of course Citylink COULD resolve it, but the wider issue is TelstraClear's lack of peering. If TelstraClear peered at WIX there would be no problem - traffic for say TVNZ videos and other Citylink-hosted content would remain within NZ for TelstraClear customers in Wellington accessing it. As it stands, it comes from the US.

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