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# 39363 12-Aug-2009 22:23
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Was doing some speed tests tonight and though I sort of knew about TCL's peering (or lack of peering) I was somewhat surprised by this result (10Mbs plan)

A quick tracert confirmed the strange routing

Tracing route to www.citylink.co.nz [202.7.6.20]

over a maximum of 30 hops:

  2    13 ms    13 ms    17 ms  203-97-103-x.cable.telstraclear.net [203.97.103.x]
  3    27 ms    23 ms    20 ms  ie2-g-0-0-0.telstraclear.net [203.98.50.2]
  4    20 ms    20 ms    21 ms  ge-0-2-0-1.xcore1.acld.telstraclear.net [203.98.50.251]
  5    32 ms    20 ms    19 ms  203.167.233.10
  6   144 ms   148 ms   146 ms  i-3-2-0.wil-core02.bx.reach.com [202.84.219.117]
  7   145 ms   146 ms   146 ms  i-1-2.tlot03.bi.reach.com [202.84.251.238]
  8   146 ms   146 ms   146 ms  ge-6-21.car3.LosAngeles1.Level3.net [4.68.111.137]
  9   148 ms   147 ms   147 ms  ae-4-90.edge5.LosAngeles1.Level3.net [4.69.144.203]
 10   146 ms   147 ms   147 ms  CWIE-LLC.edge5.LosAngeles1.Level3.net [4.59.48.30]
 11   160 ms   160 ms   159 ms  Vlan802.br02-200p-sfo.unitedlayer.com [209.237.224.137]
 12   168 ms   168 ms   167 ms  207.7.129.14
 13   175 ms   169 ms   170 ms  sf001-cs1.streaming.net.nz [207.126.109.22]
 14   174 ms   170 ms   169 ms  202.7.6.20

A somewhat roundabout way to get to a local server!





Staying in Wellington. Check out my AirBnB in the Wellington CBD.  https://www.airbnb.co.nz/rooms/32019730  Mention GZ to get a 10% discount

 

System One: Popcorn Hour A200,  PS3 SuperSlim, NPVR and Plex Server running on Gigabyte Brix (Windows 10 Pro), Sony BDP-S390 BD player, Pioneer AVR, Raspberry Pi running Kodi and Plex, Panasonic 60" 3D plasma, Google Chromecast

System Two: Popcorn Hour A200 ,  Oppo BDP-80 BluRay Player with hardware mode to be region free, Vivitek HD1080P 1080P DLP projector with 100" screen, Denon AVRS730H 7.2 Channel Dolby Atmos/DTS-X AV Receiver, Samsung 4K player, Google Chromecast, Odroid C2 running Kodi and Plex

 

 


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5105 posts

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  # 245856 12-Aug-2009 22:30
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For some reason I can't edit my post. I meant to include this image





Staying in Wellington. Check out my AirBnB in the Wellington CBD.  https://www.airbnb.co.nz/rooms/32019730  Mention GZ to get a 10% discount

 

System One: Popcorn Hour A200,  PS3 SuperSlim, NPVR and Plex Server running on Gigabyte Brix (Windows 10 Pro), Sony BDP-S390 BD player, Pioneer AVR, Raspberry Pi running Kodi and Plex, Panasonic 60" 3D plasma, Google Chromecast

System Two: Popcorn Hour A200 ,  Oppo BDP-80 BluRay Player with hardware mode to be region free, Vivitek HD1080P 1080P DLP projector with 100" screen, Denon AVRS730H 7.2 Channel Dolby Atmos/DTS-X AV Receiver, Samsung 4K player, Google Chromecast, Odroid C2 running Kodi and Plex

 

 


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  # 245863 12-Aug-2009 22:54
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crazy

 
 
 
 


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  # 245866 12-Aug-2009 23:16
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Yes it's completely nuts, it's the same on Telecom since they both de-peered from WIX/APE a few years back.

Tracing route to www.citylink.co.nz [202.7.6.20]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.0.1
  2     1 ms     1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.1.1
  -
  4     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  5     8 ms     8 ms     8 ms  xe6-0-0-10.akbr5.global-gateway.net.nz [202.37.244.221]
  6     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  7    10 ms     9 ms     8 ms  xe6-1-0.tkbr9.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50.232.186]
  8   134 ms   133 ms   133 ms  so6-0-3.labr5.global-gateway.net.nz [122.56.127.34]
  9   133 ms   133 ms   134 ms  so0-0-1.lebr6.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50.232.98]
 10   142 ms   140 ms   141 ms  br01-eqixlax.unitedlayer.com [206.223.123.108]
 11   141 ms   140 ms   140 ms  Vlan802.br02-200p-sfo.unitedlayer.com [209.237.224.137]
 12   141 ms   141 ms   140 ms  207.7.129.14
 13   140 ms   140 ms   141 ms  sf001-cs1.streaming.net.nz [207.126.109.22]
 14   141 ms   140 ms   141 ms  202.7.6.20

Trace complete.

Lucky citylink isn't a major local provider of content and streaming services

OH WAIT...



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  # 245889 13-Aug-2009 07:07
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Non-peered ISP's get routed to Citylink's POP in the US.



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  # 245898 13-Aug-2009 07:48
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Ragnor: Yes it's completely nuts, it's the same on Telecom since they both de-peered from WIX/APE a few years back.

Lucky citylink isn't a major local provider of content and streaming services

OH WAIT...




I was told by Citylink that they actually host TVNZ online (well are one of the hosts of it). And because of this strange peering setup they have to mirror the content in the US so that people using ISP's that don't peer locally don't take a double whammy of heading up to the US and then back to NZ as in their main web site.




Staying in Wellington. Check out my AirBnB in the Wellington CBD.  https://www.airbnb.co.nz/rooms/32019730  Mention GZ to get a 10% discount

 

System One: Popcorn Hour A200,  PS3 SuperSlim, NPVR and Plex Server running on Gigabyte Brix (Windows 10 Pro), Sony BDP-S390 BD player, Pioneer AVR, Raspberry Pi running Kodi and Plex, Panasonic 60" 3D plasma, Google Chromecast

System Two: Popcorn Hour A200 ,  Oppo BDP-80 BluRay Player with hardware mode to be region free, Vivitek HD1080P 1080P DLP projector with 100" screen, Denon AVRS730H 7.2 Channel Dolby Atmos/DTS-X AV Receiver, Samsung 4K player, Google Chromecast, Odroid C2 running Kodi and Plex

 

 


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  # 247408 16-Aug-2009 23:03
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this is from maxnet
I am located about 20kms north of the CBD

Tracing route to citylink.co.nz [202.7.6.20]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms . [192.168.2.1]
2 19 ms 19 ms 19 ms 123.100.64.12
3 19 ms 19 ms 19 ms 123.100.64.144
4 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms anycast2.ape.net.nz [192.203.154.58]
5 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms anycast.ape.net.nz [192.203.154.5]
6 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms 202.7.6.20

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  # 247412 16-Aug-2009 23:18
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If Maxnet offered naked adsl plan that was uncapped but traffic managed like Big Time I'd definately hit that.

Even just uncapped offpeak 2am-8am would be enough for me to convert.

 
 
 
 


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  # 247414 16-Aug-2009 23:22
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I gave it a try just for interest, not bad XNet:

traceroute to citylink.co.nz (202.7.6.20), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 10.0.1.1 (10.0.1.1) 2.743 ms 0.671 ms 0.716 ms
2 ip-58-28-15-31.wxnz.net (58.28.15.31) 7.856 ms 7.466 ms 7.211 ms
3 ip-58-28-13-83.wxnz.net (58.28.13.83) 7.586 ms 7.720 ms 7.678 ms
4 ge-0-0-0-akl-core2.wxnz.net (58.28.8.3) 7.829 ms 7.672 ms 7.738 ms
5 anycast2.ape.net.nz (192.203.154.58) 7.800 ms 7.693 ms 7.502 ms
6 anycast.ape.net.nz (192.203.154.5) 7.467 ms 8.281 ms 7.444 ms
7 202.7.6.20 (202.7.6.20) 9.550 ms 7.602 ms 7.522 ms

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  # 247415 16-Aug-2009 23:29
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jjnz1: this is from maxnet


Maxnet peers at APE (Auckland Peering Exchange) so your traffic to/from Citylink remains national.

Citylink use something called Anycast for their streaming platform, which basically routes traffic to the Citylink POP (Point Of Presence) closest - in network terms - to you.

Since TelstraClear doesn't peer at APE or any of the other peering exchanges, traffic to/from Citylink travels to their US based POP as this is the "closest". Therefore the tracert posted by the OP goes out of NZ and the ping times are much higher.

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  # 247490 17-Aug-2009 09:32
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Ragnor: If Maxnet offered naked adsl plan that was uncapped but traffic managed like Big Time I'd definately hit that.

Even just uncapped offpeak 2am-8am would be enough for me to convert.


Lucky they dont then aye, otherwise maxnet would turn into another xnet.

I'd rather pay more, to download more, and still have an a+ service/experience. (ie being able to watch you tube at peak)

I have just switched from xnet to maxnet, couldn't be happier even though i pay more!


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  # 247510 17-Aug-2009 10:19
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ISP's in the UK, US and Asia (apart from NZ and AU) manage to offer uncapped internet services by leveraging proper caching and traffic management strategies.

There's no question Xnet mis-managed the delivery of their adsl service in the last 2 years (in my opinion), I left in 2007 before the torrent plan as I could see their "no traffic management" stance at the time was going to be disastrous.

I have been very impressed with with general web, email, youtube and gaming on Telecom Big Time so far in peak time.  I don't have any problem with running large downloads overnight.

I'm sure Maxnet have the skills to offer a compelling managed plan.




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  # 247512 17-Aug-2009 10:28
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Kraven:
jjnz1: this is from maxnet


Maxnet peers at APE (Auckland Peering Exchange) so your traffic to/from Citylink remains national.

Citylink use something called Anycast for their streaming platform, which basically routes traffic to the Citylink POP (Point Of Presence) closest - in network terms - to you.

Since TelstraClear doesn't peer at APE or any of the other peering exchanges, traffic to/from Citylink travels to their US based POP as this is the "closest". Therefore the tracert posted by the OP goes out of NZ and the ping times are much higher.


That was the point I was making. If ISP's peered properly then perhaps they could charge less for traffic or provide better limits. The continual argument is, we have to pay  big buck for international traffic so we pass it on. But to force local traffic to go international just doesn't make sense.

This is one of the reasons I rarely watch any streaming TV - not only is the cost high but the latency makes it unwatchable in most respects.  Perhaps somebody can explain to me why TCL and apparently Telecom, don't peer locally.  This is SOP in the US with all the major carriers peering at west coast and east coast locations.




Staying in Wellington. Check out my AirBnB in the Wellington CBD.  https://www.airbnb.co.nz/rooms/32019730  Mention GZ to get a 10% discount

 

System One: Popcorn Hour A200,  PS3 SuperSlim, NPVR and Plex Server running on Gigabyte Brix (Windows 10 Pro), Sony BDP-S390 BD player, Pioneer AVR, Raspberry Pi running Kodi and Plex, Panasonic 60" 3D plasma, Google Chromecast

System Two: Popcorn Hour A200 ,  Oppo BDP-80 BluRay Player with hardware mode to be region free, Vivitek HD1080P 1080P DLP projector with 100" screen, Denon AVRS730H 7.2 Channel Dolby Atmos/DTS-X AV Receiver, Samsung 4K player, Google Chromecast, Odroid C2 running Kodi and Plex

 

 


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  # 247523 17-Aug-2009 10:48
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Devil's Advocate:

Why don't Citylink (who are just one content provider) peer with Telecom (who have the vast majority of the customers)?

http://www.telecomwholesale.co.nz/local_peering

BDFL - Memuneh
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  # 247552 17-Aug-2009 11:30
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That's hilarious. Every "key benefits" that Telecom list is a reason they should be peering at the existing peering exchanges.

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