Arrgg!! Rogue 'SMS Subscription Services' and Vodafone

Forums › One New Zealand (including Vodafone, WxC, Farmside) › Arrgg!! Rogue 'SMS Subscription Services' and Vodafone

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honem

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#233850 10-Jul-2009 19:46

Ahmad,

Yes this sort of story has come up on Fair Go before.

But that's not to say they won't do another story on it - from watching Fair Go over the last year or so I've seen them do plenty of repeat stories if there is interest in it (like the one on the dodgy plumber who run away in his van from the Fair Go reporter lolz). They also do plenty of "follow up" stories eg the parking companies ones that come up every month.

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- Hone , Often accused of Excess Verbosity
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gingereejit

89 posts

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#235604 15-Jul-2009 12:46

Story in today's Stuff

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/2596221/The-latest-internet-scam-IQ-tests

dolsen

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#235608 15-Jul-2009 12:55

Last sentence

"If further complaints were made indicating unsolicited subscription or failure to comply with the terms and conditions, the commission would reconsider, he said."

Well, here you go ZollyMonsta. The Commerce Commission is waiting to hear from you...

ZollyMonsta

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#235614 15-Jul-2009 13:06

dolsen: Last sentence

"If further complaints were made indicating unsolicited subscription or failure to comply with the terms and conditions, the commission would reconsider, he said."

Well, here you go ZollyMonsta. The Commerce Commission is waiting to hear from you...

Yes.. its under investigation now by Vodafone... Thus far a week has past and Vodafone has recieved no information from the provider on subscription details (proof subscription ever occurred).

Don't worry, the information I get will go to the 'right' people :-)

MikeGayner

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#235616 15-Jul-2009 13:07

I thought the prior two sentences were much more relevant:

"If you want to check your IQ, the first test you should pass is knowing to read the terms and conditions and fully understand what you are entering into," Mr Sparrow said.

The commission will not be taking any action at this time against any of the websites as they had not breached the Fair Trading Act.

ZollyMonsta

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#235622 15-Jul-2009 13:11

MikeGayner: I thought the prior two sentences were much more relevant:

"If you want to check your IQ, the first test you should pass is knowing to read the terms and conditions and fully understand what you are entering into," Mr Sparrow said.

The commission will not be taking any action at this time against any of the websites as they had not breached the Fair Trading Act.

I suggest you go back and read this thread in it's entirety before commenting.

MikeGayner

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#235624 15-Jul-2009 13:15

I have read the whole thread, and frankly I think you're either lying or mistaken. Every other report we've heard regarding this service involves confirmation in one form or another. Did you read the fien print? No.

Also, if I may be frank again, I think anyone who takes part in an online IQ test and puts their phone number in deserve whatever they get. Hopefully it will teach people some skills in protecting their privacy.

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ZollyMonsta

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#235631 15-Jul-2009 13:22

MikeGayner: I have read the whole thread, and frankly I think you're either lying or mistaken. Every other report we've heard regarding this service involves confirmation in one form or another. Did you read the fien print? No.

Also, if I may be frank again, I think anyone who takes part in an online IQ test and puts their phone number in deserve whatever they get. Hopefully it will teach people some skills in protecting their privacy.

No you haven't. If you had read it, you would have read the following:

No mobile was entered (it was STOLEN from her Facebook profile)

No PIN was entered (pin was sent to her mobile at 5am and 90 seconds later a confirmation)

The third party is in breach of VF's own 'dual opt-in' terms and conditions for premium text providers

Either way, said third party still has not provided to vodafone proof of subscription.

honem

194 posts

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#235645 15-Jul-2009 13:45

MikeGayner: I have read the whole thread, and frankly I think you're either lying or mistaken. Every other report we've heard regarding this service involves confirmation in one form or another. Did you read the fien print? No.
.

I don't believe you have read the whole thread in it's entirety.

Did you go "Too long did not read" , skip most of it and come to an assumption without reading all of it ?

I used to work at Telecom.

I've heard pretty much every sob story related to charges on someones account from my granddaughter was just playing with it to the dog turned my mobile on last night and started playing with it.

Coming from my telecom experience and also my Geekzone experience I can tell you that Zolly ain't lying. I've seen other posts he
makes and I do not believe he is lying.

Also another point - 99% of the time the people that talked to me about text short codes have told me that the terms & conditions weren't given in a satisfactory way. Most of the time it's flashed on screen for about 3 seconds in 8 point text. There but impossible to read. Nor is it made clear how to stop them from coming which is another thing they are *meant* to do under the terms of their contract with Telecom.

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- Hone , Often accused of Excess Verbosity
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MikeGayner

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#235651 15-Jul-2009 13:54

Honem, that's not applicable in this case because the T&Cs would not have been flashed on the TV screen, but rather been available on the website to be read at any leisure. In fact, I'll bet a button labelled "I agree to the above conditions" was pressed.

Zolly - it's not fair to say the number was stolen when you're accessing a service and giving it permission to do so. It's convenient for those of us with discipline and common sense to have information shared between services.

honem

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#235693 15-Jul-2009 15:04

Honem, that's not applicable in this case because the T&Cs would not have been flashed on the TV screen, but rather been available on the website to be read at any leisure. In fact, I'll bet a button labelled "I agree to the above conditions" was pressed.

Are you aware of how Text Short code SMS subscriptions actually work?

There's no website to go to to sign up , there's no button in fact there's no opportunity for anyone to press a button labelled "I agree to the above conditions"

You send a Text message to a 4 digit number that then sends a text message back. Not all of these SMS subs. service use a Double opt in system (meaning you've subscribed the moment they get a text message from you in their network).

Pretty much all of the customers that talked to me as a Telecom 123 CSR signed up to these services after seeing it advertised either in a magazine or on the television. None of them signed up by going to a website and clicking through a sign up process.

All of them said it wasn't that noticeable - they always have the text too short to notice or on screen not long enough to notice. I know this because I had to sit down and research this as part of something I was presenting at a team meeting about this.

The debate appears to be between Jolly saying the above texts were never sent from their phones and the Teleco effectively saying "yes you did" but refusing to come to the party with the defining proof that they did.

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- Hone , Often accused of Excess Verbosity
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MikeGayner

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#235704 15-Jul-2009 15:22

Honem - this particular subscription service doesn't require you to text your number in, but rather gathers it from facebook/direct entry, as has been stated in both this thread and the Stuff article. Cavalier distribution of personal information sometimes comes back to bite us in the ass, as has happened in this case. Let's start taking responsibility for our actions, and accept that we've learned a hard lesson about caprice as it relates to privacy.

As for the telco having to provide proof, this is absurd. This is not the telco's problem - the OPs agreement is between him and the subscription service. The telco is not responsible for your actions, you are.

dickytim

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#235784 15-Jul-2009 18:46

MikeGayner: Honem - this particular subscription service doesn't require you to text your number in, but rather gathers it from facebook/direct entry, as has been stated in both this thread and the Stuff article. Cavalier distribution of personal information sometimes comes back to bite us in the ass, as has happened in this case. Let's start taking responsibility for our actions, and accept that we've learned a hard lesson about caprice as it relates to privacy.

As for the telco having to provide proof, this is absurd. This is not the telco's problem - the OPs agreement is between him and the subscription service. The telco is not responsible for your actions, you are.

If they are charging you for a service that you are disputing they sure as hell better provide proof that the service was opted into in a correct fashion. That is just common sense.

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