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Wannabe Geek


Topic # 14608 11-Jul-2007 21:00
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Hi.. With the VFX service, can i bring my own unlocked Linksys PAP2 (Not PAP2T) device? Laughing 
 - If i can, how do i get the settings for it?
 - If i cant, why cant i?

Thanks in advance..

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  Reply # 77801 11-Jul-2007 22:24
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You can, but be aware that line 1 will be locked down for VFX.  When you sign up, you provide the MAC address.  Then they add it to their provisioning list/server.  You get an e-mail with an address which you enter into your device, and then it all just works (assuming you and they got the MAC right!).  The address you enter into the device looks like a web page address, but note you can not browse to it.  It is only used for device provisioning.

Line 2 should be unlocked from the start, but if not then you simply ask them and they will do it.




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  Reply # 77804 11-Jul-2007 23:20
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The PAP2 is NOT compatible with VFX; only the PAP2T version. See link for compatible hardware:
http://www.xnet.co.nz/vfx/hardware.shtml




Chorus has spent $1.4 billion on making their xDSL broadband network faster. If your still stuck on ADSL or VDSL, why not spend from $150 on a master filter install to make sure you are getting the most out of your connection?
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  Reply # 77809 12-Jul-2007 06:58
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Sorry, not enough coffee that late at night.  Missed that he wants to use a PAP2.

Note that many shops sell unlocked devices, but the ones that are pre-configured for VFX are cheaper.  But VFX will unlock the extra line if you want, so no need to go for an unlocked device.  Or are you looking at importing PAP2 devices for cheap and then sell them on TradeMe?




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WorldxChange

  Reply # 77810 12-Jul-2007 07:11
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Hi TheOne

There is a link to the a thread on the why we are not supporting the PAP2 here, also this device has been replaced with PAP2T so ongoing firmware support will start to become limited going forward.

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?ForumId=65&TopicId=13545



As for the settings, a question raised a number of times on this forum Laughing, but it is an important question so happy to go over it again.

VFX is being marketed and developed to be a fixed line replacement and with the impending approach of Naked DSL we believe it will a viable option for people to replace there existing Telecom Line with a VFX line.

Now the only way to do this is for the customers to have faith in the services and products offered by WorldxChange and in particular VFX. Whilst I know SIP is an open standard and there now a large number of different SIP devices out there nowadays just because it's a SIP device that doesn't mean it will work with our services. We offer a range of services form Voicemail, Call Notify, Call Waiting and 3 way calling , Call Transfers and numerous call forwarding options , for all of these to work on the Device and on the Web and Voice Portals that come with VFX all the SIP interaction has to work perfectly, if it doesn't services don't work the way they should do.

What we do is that we control a large number of the SIP settings through secure automated provisioning of the supported devices and they are locked down, this is done so that we can take responsibility for all services and workings with VFX,

Example
if we left all the SIP settings open and you changed a couple of things, you have a 3 Way Call between yourself and a couple of Mobile phones for 5 Minutes. If for some reason because of the way the call is hung up the SIP message is sent in a different way, or time it could result in a hung call to a Mobile for 3 hours, Now is this our fault or yours ? we have a 3 hour call to a Mobile we have to pay for (ever tried to get a credit out of Vodafone Laughing), now because you have changed a setting or two on the device you may not think is important it actually may have been, but we have a 3 hour call to pay for so then would want to charge you for itl, now your not going to be too happy about that I'm sure. This is just an example here there a few others, so our strategy is that we control the SIP settings as we control the workings of our Network, if we do that then we own any issues and interop problems that may arise (hung calls etc).

One thing to note as well is that this is not a Point to Point network the SIP call travel through several parts of our Network 8 or 9 different devices that all have to work with what ever SIP message is sent this takes a lot of work and testing so any message that is sent incorrectly i.e. a SIP notify instead of Re invite for call hold may cause services to not work.

Our goal here is to have a service that you generally you can just plug in and it goes and these will be generally a large number of customers, most people have no idea what VOIP or SIP is and really they don't need to all they want is a service that works, that is what we are trying to do, we also understand that some people are uncomfortable with this and understand that as well, for those people there are other options, but I think you will find that there a lot of people here already that have tried those and also had your same questions that are now pretty happy with our solution.

Hope this makes sense to you and you now have an understanding of what we do and why.

Regards
Phil Moore
Operations Manager
WorldxChange Communications




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  Reply # 77815 12-Jul-2007 08:32
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Hi Phil

Thanks for that response, it has helped clarify for me the value in the locking strategy - for both of us!

I am a home Asterisk user (as are many others around here). Right now - I can only connect to my VFX line through an approved device. Of course, that consumes an FXO port.  Can you forsee a time when home Asterisk users like me will ever be able to connect to VFX directly from Asterisk - perhaps through a proxy?  I am aware of the commercial plans that allow Asterisk connections, but as a home user, I will only every need one or two connections.

Cheers Mike


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WorldxChange

  Reply # 77820 12-Jul-2007 09:00
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Hi Mike,

Another good question, the answer is a bit complicated , yes we do want to support Asterisk in the future on VFX and are working towards it, we do support it now for larger commercial as you said , min requirements for this are 5 Concurrent Calls , 10 DDI's + a direct connection (That way we control the QOS and Network Connectivity) we again can then accept responsibility for the connection and quality which is important to businesses. Thats part one the second part is support on the VFX service this is much harder but we are working on it, the issue is coming down to security yours and ours.

Asterisk can be great for people that are technically capable of running the service and it's fun to work with, it's not your average consumers cup of tea as you can well imagine though Laughing , it's feature rich and can be setup in any way the home user want's as it's pretty flexible as you can change almost anything on it...Here lies the problem and security concerns. presently we supply the configs encrypted and secure as all devices are handled by an automated provisioning system and locked down so you can't change details, here is the problem with Asterisk we can't provision it directly and if it's open Asterisk users can and will change settings. Now this can includes CLI (CLI spoofing) calls being generated passing incorrect CLI, now I can't stress the importance of this enough as it's a huge security hole to be plugged, this has already happened within New Zealand people using frauded CLI's to make large numbers of calls I won't say who it has effected (but it's not us Laughing ). There are always the small minority that can destroy a service but honestly it is to important an issue since we know it's there to release a service that could effect legit customers and no way would we knowly open our network up to fraud.

So in a nutshell thats the major problem with Asterisk it's great as an open source platform but for network security it becomes it's worst enemy as the enduser controls CLI, in saying that we are working on it, it is taking longer than hoped as we put more and more security into our own network to try and work around this issue.

May not be what you want to hear and I would love to say I can take Asterisk now but realisticly it's still a way off, it's got to be saftey and security first , hope you can appreciate that.





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  Reply # 77824 12-Jul-2007 09:33
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Thanks for the reply Phil and your comments do make sense. I guess that dedicating one FXO port is the price to be paid for the security. A small price in reality!

Appreciate the feedback.

Cheers Mike


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  Reply # 77825 12-Jul-2007 09:38
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mruane: I am a home Asterisk user (as are many others around here). Right now - I can only connect to my VFX line through an approved device. Of course, that consumes an FXO port.  Can you forsee a time when home Asterisk users like me will ever be able to connect to VFX directly from Asterisk - perhaps through a proxy?  I am aware of the commercial plans that allow Asterisk connections, but as a home user, I will only every need one or two connections.


Mike, you may want to check out Tony's VFX to Asterisk setup.
http://www.geekzone.co.nz/tonyhughes/2608




Chorus has spent $1.4 billion on making their xDSL broadband network faster. If your still stuck on ADSL or VDSL, why not spend from $150 on a master filter install to make sure you are getting the most out of your connection?
I install - Naked DSL, DSL Master Splitters, VoIP, data cabling and general computer support for home and small business.
Rural Broadband RBI installer for Ultimate Broadband and Full Flavour

 

Need help in Auckland, Waikato or BoP? Click my email button, or email me direct: [my user name] at geekzonemail dot com


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  Reply # 77833 12-Jul-2007 11:07
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Thanks for the suggestion. It was Tony's notes that originally got me started and I use the same method to connect to VFX as he outlines i.e. Asterisk FXO port to the VOIP port on the WAG54GP2 and it works perfectly. With the addition of a couple of lines in the extensions_custom.conf file I can access the VFX trunk and get a dial tone just by dialling 9.

Its a good solution, but depending on how miserable you want to be, the FXO port can be low quality with echo, or high quality and clear.  Of course, quality and price are directly related. So needing to reserve a high quality FXO port to connect to VFX was what prompted the question. Phil's response though explains the situation and its just a price to be paid for a good service.

Cheers Mike



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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 77877 12-Jul-2007 19:12
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Ah so thats why you locked the devices lol.. i was wondering why you did.... but yeah good point as to why you do.
 
This has probably been answered before but just to make sure, if i was to buy a PAP2T from say dick smith thats locked to VFX, if for whatever reason i want to leave VFX, will you unlock the PAP2T so its not locked into VFX? And if i was to buy an unlocked PAP2T off ebay in the U.S or somewhere, that will still work on your VFX?

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  Reply # 77891 12-Jul-2007 20:10
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Before I joined I looked into exactly the same options.  It was hard to find an unlocked device overseas, and also read of heaps of people complaining that they can not get their devices unlocked when they leave the service provider.  I do not know about VFX, but I do know they really do not mind to unlock the second line while you are signed up with them so I can't see why they would not also unlock the first line when you leave.  They have enough confidence in their services that they never lock you into a contract.  They also do not give you specials for taking a combined package, they know you are likely to take more of their services anyway.

When you buy a device, suggest you search around.  There are a number of shops selling it, and some offer the locked devices for less than the unlocked devices.




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  Reply # 77897 12-Jul-2007 20:44
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The term "locked to VFX" is a bit misleading to use, as they are not really locked. I would term them "pre-configured for VFX". You can factory reset the PAP2T no problem, then do what you like with it (as all the VFX settings will be gone). Then if you wanted to use VFX again, you would need to manually enter the provisioning string, which will pull down the VFX info again, then of course "lock" you back out (until an other factory reset)




Chorus has spent $1.4 billion on making their xDSL broadband network faster. If your still stuck on ADSL or VDSL, why not spend from $150 on a master filter install to make sure you are getting the most out of your connection?
I install - Naked DSL, DSL Master Splitters, VoIP, data cabling and general computer support for home and small business.
Rural Broadband RBI installer for Ultimate Broadband and Full Flavour

 

Need help in Auckland, Waikato or BoP? Click my email button, or email me direct: [my user name] at geekzonemail dot com


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WorldxChange

  Reply # 77954 13-Jul-2007 06:14
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Yes you are right TheOne we will unconfigure the device if you left, and we would support any PAP2T device.

The Dick Smith ones are a lot cheaper as we actually subsidise them, and yes we could be totaly anal about it and lock it down so factory resets don't work either and we could lock down the second port as well, but we havn't elected to do that, we know people will take adavantage of this and are doing so but we are trying to give a great service with a bit of flexability as we are pretty confident that most people will find this service top notch. 







Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

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  Reply # 77977 13-Jul-2007 12:36
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DSE charges $119 for the PAP2T (or $113.50 with trade card), C1 Shopping Mall charges $112.  At DSE the SPA2102 is $198, at C1 it is $119.  I refuse to buy from DSE unless there is no other choice.

That's great Phil, every other service provider overseas that I've read about will never unlock the device when you leave, also reset and firmware upgrade does not help, and they will not even open the second line.  You guys are great!




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  Reply # 77998 13-Jul-2007 15:18
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The link to DSE on the http://www.xnet.co.nz/vfx/hardware.shtml page doesn't work. DSE have a stupid website that puts a session variable into the URL, so if you actually go there it redirects to the homepage as the sessions expired - more fun when people post one and their session is still live since you can go in and edit their details if they have logged in. Bad web design from DSE that they refuse to fix or even acknowledge as a problem




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