[WXC/VFX] Responsibility for reporting faults

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gchiu

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#148921 5-Jul-2014 12:50

I see that the WxC terms & conditions have a clause 10j which states under general responsibilities:

j) Provide us with information to enable us to rectify any faults
with either the Network or your connections,

The actual situation is that I have had a fusion account for a holiday home up north for use by guests for a couple of years. At sometime mid January the internet and IP phone stopped working.

I found out about it a week ago when a new guest arrived and reported it. Before this no one had reported it to me.

After trialling 3 different adsl modems ( since I didn't want to pay the $200 call out fee quoted by WXC if the fault was not a line fault ), we agreed for a tech to come and that was this morning.

It seems that several streets away, at the termination point, a Chorus tech or contractor had taken the pair allocated for the home and used it for someone else's new connection. So Chorus had been billing WXC for this now non-existent line and WXC had added their value to the same non-existent line.

I talked to WXC several times, and they are unwilling to offer any refund since I had not reported the fault earlier. I can't see that the fee is actually contingent on my reporting the fault.

Does this reasonably mean that I am liable for all charges until I report any faults?

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#1081475 5-Jul-2014 15:02

I'd be expecting my money back in full from the date Chorus stole the line. They have not been providing the services they were contracted to provide.

It looks like WXC is not part of the TDR (very good reason for anyone to not do business with them right there) so you'd pretty much have to take them to the disputes tribunal to get anything out of them.

Good luck!

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sbiddle

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#1081478 5-Jul-2014 15:05

WxC have no way of knowing there is a fault and have to pay Chorus. Why should you not have to pay them?

traderstu

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#1081485 5-Jul-2014 15:16

sbiddle: WxC have no way of knowing there is a fault and have to pay Chorus. Why should you not have to pay them?

I would expect that WxC would be making a claim for compensation to Chorus

mattwnz

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#1081499 5-Jul-2014 15:47

sbiddle: WxC have no way of knowing there is a fault and have to pay Chorus. Why should you not have to pay them?

Simple, because the ISP should also be able to claim the cost back from their supplier, as their supplier hadn't been been providing any service to them for that connection. Their supplier shouldn't have been charging the ISP for a non existent service anyway, as they are already getting payment for that same connection from someone else, otherwise it is double dipping. I also wouldn't regard it as a fault, as it sounds like a service cancellation without authorisation or permission from what the OP said. If it had been an actual 'fault', such as a wiring problem, then I would agree, but not in this case, when their connection had been assigned to someone else, it isn't a fault. Perhaps a case for the TDR. (edit: They don't appear to be a member as per earlier post) I guess the disputes tribunal if you don't get anywhere with the ISP. Does reinforce the need to go with an ISP that is a member of the TDR.

gchiu

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#1081503 5-Jul-2014 15:58

I have to agree that in this case, Chorus ( or its contractors) literally pulled the plug on my connection, and it's not a fault.

sbiddle

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#1081515 5-Jul-2014 16:25

Rather than a cancellation it sounds like a simple jumpering mistake which isn't uncommon. It's highly unlikely that WxC will receive any compensation from Chorus for such a mistake.

I do find it funny however that everybody is automatically jumping to the "use the TDR" conclusion - the TDR will only investigate after all attempts to solve an issue directly with the ISP have reached a stalemate. Even if WxC were a member of the TDR there would be as of yet to grounds to contact them.

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kingjj

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#1081516 5-Jul-2014 16:26

Best of luck getting anything back from WxC, I tried years ago to get several months worth of bills cancelled (as they continued to bill despite connection moving and them being advised as such) but they wouldn't have a bar of it. I finally paid up when the first BayCorp letter arrived. There argument was they had no record of disconnection, mine was I advised them as such AND there had not been active connection through them for months. Apparently them having no costs in servicing me for months but an active account in their eyes justified the monthly fees.

Perhaps things have improved but I reckon you've got an up hill battle sorry.

mattwnz

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#1081521 5-Jul-2014 16:34

sbiddle: Rather than a cancellation it sounds like a simple jumpering mistake which isn't uncommon. It's highly unlikely that WxC will receive any compensation from Chorus for such a mistake.

I do find it funny however that everybody is automatically jumping to the "use the TDR" conclusion - the TDR will only investigate after all attempts to solve an issue directly with the ISP have reached a stalemate. Even if WxC were a member of the TDR there would be as of yet to grounds to contact them.

From a customer point of view, why the connection was assigned to someone else doesn't make any difference, even if it was human or a hole in their systems. The end result is what matters, where they have said that their connection is now being used by someone else, and their service was effectively cancelled due to the connection reassignment. The OP has stated initially that their ISP won't offer refund which sounds a pretty conclusive position, so the TDR would normally be the next step if they can't get any further with the ISP. When I used the TDR, they said that you can contact them if you have already made a formal complaint to the ISP. In my case the ISP didn't bother to reply at all to the compliant, but they did once it was. But it is irrelevant in this case as the ISP doesn't appear to be a member.

gchiu

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#1081533 5-Jul-2014 16:43

sbiddle: Rather than a cancellation it sounds like a simple jumpering mistake which isn't uncommon. It's highly unlikely that WxC will receive any compensation from Chorus for such a mistake.

I'm deducing from this that you feel that the industry is full of cowboys who can get away with anything.

The tech I spoke to also said that this type of error occurs frequently. Ok, it's not a tree falling on someone in the timber logging industry, but if errors like this are frequent, then if I were an ISP, I would be taking proactive measures to protect my customers. If they can detect to the kb how much my traffic is, I hardly think having scripts to monitor network performance is beyond them.

mattwnz

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#1081541 5-Jul-2014 17:18

I would have thought the ISP would be able to get a refund from their supplier, as they haven't received the connection they paid for. But may depend on their contract, which may cover these sorts of thing.But from the customer point of view all that is pretty irrelevant, as the contract is between the customer and the ISP, not the customer and the supplier.

Has anyone else heard about someones active connection going to someone else? I wonder if it is due to your house being unoccupied for lengths of time, so they possibly thought it wasn't being used? You probably need to find out exactly why it occurred from the ISP.

gchiu

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#1097028 28-Jul-2014 12:33

Well, after 3 weeks, I've been offered one month's credit for the loss of 6 month's service.
I've turned that down as I want full credit.

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#1097144 28-Jul-2014 14:44

If it were a physical product that you took back to the store 6 months after it stopped working, you wouldn't get compensation for the 6 months you did nothing about it, would you? Honestly, if you had notified them and it took 6 months to fix, totally should be getting a refund and then some.

How was it determined that the fault arose in mid January?

gchiu

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#1097160 28-Jul-2014 15:06

The WxC tech told me that's when the communications between my certified VFX phone and their system ceased.
And of course their logs show no traffic over this period.

The difference between a physical product, and internet supply is the latter is a contract to supply a service. I've advertised my holiday home as having internet and a phone. And as a result, my reputation has been diminished by the lack of it. Why didn't the people staying there report it? No idea.

sico77

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#1097213 28-Jul-2014 16:17

The fact that you are advertising internet and phone has nothing to do with this.
That's a complaint path that will get you no where with Service Providers in general.

The DSL service you have is a non-monitored, Residential connection regardless of what you use it for.
The onus is on you to make sure its working.

In fact the act of giving someone else access to a service you are responsible for as the account holder AND you advertise it is more than likely a breach of contract.

I believe the quote taken from WXC t&c's you started this thread with, really explains everything you need to know.

11. You agree that you and those that you are responsible for, will:
i) Provide us with information to enable us to rectify any faults with either the Network or your connections;

Regardless of how this fault occurred be it human error or act of god..

If there wasn't the desire for the user to report it (to the ISP or to you) then it does not get fixed.
The user at the house comes under the "those you are responsible for" in this as you have lent out your service.

IMO You have no legal right to hold a service provider responsible for anything here, but i wish you luck anyways.

gchiu

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#1097230 28-Jul-2014 16:35

The onus is on you to make sure its working. In fact the act of giving someone else access to a service you are responsible for as the account holder AND you advertise it is more than likely a breach of contract.

You made that up didn't you! Otherwise you're saying that every motel or hotel you go to that advertises internet or a phone is in breach of some contract.

I believe the quote taken from WXC t&c's you started this thread with, really explains everything you need to know.

11. You agree that you and those that you are responsible for, will:
i) Provide us with information to enable us to rectify any faults with either the Network or your connections;

Regardless of how this fault occurred be it human error or act of god.. If there wasn't the desire for the user to report it (to the ISP or to you) then it does not get fixed.
The user at the house comes under the "those you are responsible for" in this as you have lent out your service. IMO You have no legal right to hold a service provider responsible for anything here, but i wish you luck anyways.

And I did report it as soon as I knew about it. There's nothing in the T&C that specify when reporting is related to billing.

Incidentally, Telecom refunded users for a service that they could not deliver for faults due to technical issues.

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