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7 posts

Wannabe Geek


Topic # 14967 28-Jul-2007 15:42
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Hi there folks.

I just setup my OEM SPA2102 router I brought off of nicegear using the provisioning link given to me by XNet.

Sadly, as soon as I did this I lost the ability to access my web interface! I need to change some settings the network portion so that I can change my network around a bit. Any ideas on why this might happen? The actual VoIP service works fine.

Quite keen to be able to access my web interface again. I tried using the phone control service that the router has by dialing **** but when I went to enable the web interface again (I thought perhaps it had become disabled in the config download), it required a password. Eh? Not sure if I'm on the right track there.

Anyway, any help you can give would be much appreciated.

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  Reply # 80130 28-Jul-2007 16:55
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Hi

The Web Interface will be locked down on the WAN side, connect to it via the LAN and change the settings for WAN access there




Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

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  Reply # 80131 28-Jul-2007 16:57
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When the VFX service is configured it locks you out of their configuration settings. If you call XNet, they should be able to reconfigure your profile leaving open the LAN /WAN settings. Alternatively you can try factory resetting, set up all your required LAN/WAN settings, then put the provisioning link back in. This will hopefully leave your LAN settings intact after the config is locked down again.




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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 80136 28-Jul-2007 17:35
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maverick: Hi

The Web Interface will be locked down on the WAN side, connect to it via the LAN and change the settings for WAN access there


Sadly, I can't connect to it via the lan or wan ip, I tried both.

Cheers for both your advice, I will give xnet a call.

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  Reply # 80142 28-Jul-2007 18:17
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PM your MAC address and I will take a look....I may know some people at XNet Wink




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Reply # 80153 28-Jul-2007 19:50
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moosenz:
maverick: Hi

The Web Interface will be locked down on the WAN side, connect to it via the LAN and change the settings for WAN access there


Sadly, I can't connect to it via the lan or wan ip, I tried both.

Cheers for both your advice, I will give xnet a call.


I know this is a non-VFX device, but I had no problems connecting to my SPA using LAN - I just made sure the laptop was configured for DHCP. After this I changed the WAN IP address to be one of the reserved addresses on my router, enabled the WAN web access and all worked fine.







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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 80156 28-Jul-2007 20:41
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Well I know traditionally that it goes Router->SPA2102->Lan for QoS reasons.

Sadly, the interface on the SPA2102 is completely crap and I really like the one on my Linksys WAG54G. Potentially it would be have much better to get an integrated ADSL Modem, Wireless Router & VoIP Linksys router, sadly this only occured to me after a little while (when I actually heard about a decent VoIP service in NZ).

So at the moment I have it setup as ADSLRouter->Lan with voip traffic being routed to the voip router via port forwarding. Perhaps not ideal but when I figure out how to properly setup QoS on the ADSLRouter it should be great. As it is, I don't have any quality issues because my XNet internet account is so good. But I digress slightly. Although, now that I've explained my setup, does anybody have any better ways of doing it?

Cheers Maverick I'll give you a PM when I get home.



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  Reply # 80159 28-Jul-2007 21:54
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moosenz: Well I know traditionally that it goes Router->SPA2102->Lan for QoS reasons.
...does anybody have any better ways of doing it?

I tried to use my SPA2102 in this configuration for QoS reasons as you say.

Then tried to switch SPA2102 into bridge mode so that other devices on the LAN (one of them being another VoIP gateway) did not have to go through 2 NAT devices.

Even though I set the WAN port and LAN ports of SPA2102 onto different subnets (as you have to do), it still would not work at all in bridge mode.  After several hours of playing around I gave up on this configuration and now have it connected:

ADSL Line --> Modem --> Switch --> SPA2102
                                                 --> Other devices

We have an Xnet FS/FS connection and don't have any audio problems whatsoever, even though no QoS is used.  Both ports of the SPA2102 are frequently in use simultaneously along with other internet traffic yet the quality is perfect -- as good as the best landlines.

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  Reply # 80161 28-Jul-2007 23:04
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voice packets are so small they normally just get thru without QoS anyway.... 

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  Reply # 80164 28-Jul-2007 23:52
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I've got a PPPoE --- WRT54GL --- SPA2102 --- POTS

With the other machines on the lan at the same level as the SPA.

Had the same problem with not being able to get to the web interface, password on the voice menus after provisioning etc, and thought I was going nuts for a while, even tried unplugging the browser machine off the WRT and plugging it onto the SPA and still no go.

After the WXC helpdesk swapped the SPA for another one and did cool things with the provisioning I still couldn't get to the web interface.

So as a last resort I built another box, an old P2 I had lying around, plugged it onto the SPA and -this time- got access to the web interface from there, turned on advanced/Router/WAN Setup/Remote Management/Enable Web Server/ and can now get to the SPA from the browser machine on the WRT.

When I first tried getting this to work by unplugging the browser machine from the WRT and plugging it into the SPA it definitely didn't work. This could have been my fault, not clearing the IP stack properly or miskeying the address or some other ignorant thing, or it could have been an artifact of the provisioning. Just don't know.

But it works now.      
                   

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  Reply # 80166 29-Jul-2007 00:10
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As for QoS I've been fiddling for a while now with turning it on and off on the SPA and the WRT with various combinations of uplink speeds on the SPA and up and downlink speeds on the WRT and nothing seems to have made a difference, even when flogging the network with downloads.

But then I've got a bigger problem with packet loss on the VOIP path, so will probably go back to dicking around with the QoS once most of the packets are getting through.

Would like to know Whether the SPA or the WRT are actually setting any IP precedence bits of the TOS byte, or just hard reserving some of the bandwidth for the VOIP packets. I'm inclined to think the latter.

Also like to know if any of the boxes between here and the phone on the other end would take any notice of the precedence bits even if they were being used correctly.

Oh well, dreams are free.


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  Reply # 80171 29-Jul-2007 09:17
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Unison: voice packets are so small they normally just get thru without QoS anyway.... 

That's true...  Unless the connection is saturated with other traffic at the time.  I have experienced that at a different site with much lower bandwidth.

wldhrs: Had the same problem with not being able to get to the web interface, password on the voice menus after provisioning etc, and thought I was going nuts for a while... When I first tried getting this to work by unplugging the browser machine from the WRT and plugging it into the SPA it definitely didn't work.

You're not alone there.  Myself and several others have had this same experience with the SPA2102.  The general consensus seems to be that SPA2102 is a bit of a cow to get going initially, but once you have it sorted -- with Web Interface enabled via the WAN port -- there are no further problems.  You can forget about the LAN port from then on.

Unless the fax capability is important, I would suggest to new VFX customers that they go for a PAP2T.  It is just so much easier to get going initially.

wldhrs: Would like to know Whether the SPA or the WRT are actually setting any IP precedence bits of the TOS byte, or just hard reserving some of the bandwidth for the VOIP packets. I'm inclined to think the latter.

Neither the SPA series nor WRT have the capability to "Reserve Bandwidth".  Rather, what they do is packet prioritisation i.e. any VoIP packets received get transmitted ahead of other classes of packets.  Note that this only works for upstream traffic, not downstream.

wldhrs: Also like to know if any of the boxes between here and the phone on the other end would take any notice of the precedence bits even if they were being used correctly.


As to whether the SPA and WRT set the IP precedence bits, I would be fairly certain that they do, but it is unlikely that any upstream devices in Telecom's backhaul network actually take any notice of these bits and give precedence to the VoIP traffic.  That capability is slated for inclusion in a higher-grade UBS service due for release some time next year.  At that point, it should be possible to prioritise VoIP traffic all the way from your ATA device to WxC's servers.  Just not yet I'm afraid...

Further, there are some footnotes to all of this:

1)  SPA2102 can only do its prioritisation thing when it is connected as a router i.e. with both WAN and LAN ports in use.

2)  SPA2102 has some limitations as a router, and I have not yet heard of anyone using it in this configuration.  Normally, only the WAN (Internet) port is used.

3)  Linksys have a WRTP54G-AU with built-in VoIP ports.  It will prioritise traffic from its own VoIP ports, but it's hard to say whether VoIP traffic from other devices arriving via the LAN ports would receive similar prioritisation.  Someone else may care to comment on this.

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  Reply # 80182 29-Jul-2007 10:39
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grant17: unless the fax capability is important

That's one reason why I opted for the SPA2102 instead of the PAP2T. Would like to see if fax will work, but from what I've been reading this is not going to be simple. Appears from the blogs I've run into that getting reliable fax over ip makes voip look like sitting in the sun with a beer.

The other reason for pickung the SPA was (silly boy) maybe newer tech might be a little more usable.

What drives all this banging my head against a brick wall is that I don't have a landline here at all, the router is plugged into a Skynet dish on the roof - the house is completely Telecomless.

grant17: they do ... packet prioritisation

I was guessing that the boxes were playing with bandwidth because the setup instructions recommend setting the speed that the router believes is full capacity at some arbitrary amount like 15% less than the actual capacity.

In the case of the WRT, it then throttles the link to that make-believe capacity with, theoretically I guess, the high priority traffic getting the rest. The WRT I'm using is a dd-wrt version by the way.

Looks like the SPA does the same thing, although my test results for the SPA were a bit more woolly and inconclusive.

The available bandwidth on the Skynet network floats around a lot, from the 1Mb that I buy down a bit and up toward 2Mb. I've looked at it a lot through the WRT, and just enough with the SPA to get the feeeling the same thing is happening.




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  Reply # 80185 29-Jul-2007 11:03
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wldhrs: ...Would like to see if fax will work, but from what I've been reading this is not going to be simple. Appears from the blogs I've run into that getting reliable fax over ip makes voip look like sitting in the sun with a beer.

I send faxes via my SPA2102 probably 10 or more times per week.  Most of these faxes are to one Auckland number via a Telecom line and they always work perfectly.  Occasionally, I send faxes to other numbers within NZ and these are usually OK as well, just the odd time I have to resend one.

International faxes however, almost always don't work with the SPA2102.  So much so that I have given up using it for this function, and instead send them via our sole surviving Telecom line at our Auckland office.

So, to summarise, I would say that:

*  For National faxes within NZ, SPA2102 will be almost as good as a Telecom line
*  For International faxes, you will need to use an e-mail to fax gateway, which is not ideal, particularly if you regularly fax hardcopy documents as I do

wldhrs: ...the setup instructions recommend setting the speed that the router believes is full capacity at some arbitrary amount like 15% less than the actual capacity.

In the case of the WRT, it then throttles the link to that make-believe capacity with, theoretically I guess, the high priority traffic getting the rest. The WRT I'm using is a dd-wrt version by the way.

Looks like the SPA does the same thing, although my test results for the SPA were a bit more woolly and inconclusive.


Where did you find mention of setting the Uplink Speed to "15% less than the Actual Capacity?"

I looked right through the SPA2102 Quickstart Guide and User Guide and that little gem of information isn't mentioned anywhere.

Is DD-WRT a third-party firmware package for WRT?

Finally, does this link speed setting refer to Upstream or Downstream bandwidth?

In the SPA2102 it's referred to as "Maximum Uplink Speed" so I'm guessing it is the same for WRT?

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  Reply # 80192 29-Jul-2007 11:34
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Thanks for the fax update there, makes me a lot happier to know that you're doing it
ok with the SPA. :-) Only national for me so international not an issue at present.

On the SPA2102 tab advanced/Router/WAN Setup/

QoS QDISC - default None or TBC
Maximum uplink speed - default 128 kbps

On the WRT54GL

there's a bunch of related QoS settings, among the others

Packet Scheduler - HTB or HFSC
Uplink - no default kbps
Downlink - no default kbps

And yes dd-wrt is one of the open firmware versions for the WRT54GL, it's the one that Skynet like because it just works with their network and the PPPoE transport.

Before putting it in I had a few hassles, but now, I agree with them, it does just work. I've got this desktop, the printer, xbox and wireless to the kids desktop talking through it virtually without configuration and without a glitch.

But VOIP, oops, that's another drama. See http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=65&topicid=14876



  

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  Reply # 80193 29-Jul-2007 11:40
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wldhrs: On the WRT54GL

there's a bunch of related QoS settings, among the others

Packet Scheduler - HTB or HFSC
Uplink - no default kbps
Downlink - no default kbps

And yes dd-wrt is one of the open firmware versions for the WRT54GL, it's the one that Skynet like because it just works with their network and the PPPoE transport.

OK, cheers for that Smile

It looks like the WRT54GL when kitted out with DD-WRT is making a decent effort at Bandwidth Management in both Upstream and Downstream directions.  This is good to know about as a possible recommendation for people who are having QoS problems.

Where did you find mention of the 15% guideline -- was that in the DD-WRT setup instructions?

It's not something I have managed to find in any of the Linksys documentation.

Does anyone know what the:  "Packet Scheduler - HTB or HFSC" function does?

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