Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.




4 posts

Wannabe Geek


# 18990 31-Jan-2008 22:45
Send private message

We are at this point a small VoIP integration partner and have a current install base of around 15 sites with Asterisk based PBX's. These range for 5 through to 30 extensions per site.

My issue with WXC is that every one of these customers are using ADSL (dedicated) to terminate SIP trunks (ITALK). To be honest we have had some issues with some of the ADSL connections, but very few.

My grief with WXC is that;

1. They wont supply business trunks across ADSL? The strange thing is that they seem very happy to provide via UNS which is delivered over EXACTLY the same medium as ADSL. Telecom will tell you that they monitor UNS and this is the reason that WXC say they will allow it. I have had 1st hand experience at this and can tell you it is a load of rubbish.

2. If the argument is one of capacity, we were happy to take dedicated ADSL circuits with WXC which should mean at least 700kb of outbound traffic is available. If the circuit has a capacity issue, does this mean that WXC has a overloaded termination into to ADSL world??? If this is the case is WXC saying that their own ADSL service is substandard?

3. They will only sell a minimum of 5 DDI's. With ITALK I can get as many concurrent calls as my bandwidth will allow @ $10 per month (per trunk / DDI). Many small companies don’t want and don’t need lots of DDI’s. What they need is call concurrency. This concept seems to be foreign to the people at WXC!

We really wanted to do business with WXC and were looking at transferring all our VoIP customers across. But because of the company’s ill conceived ideas and inflexibility we will be unable to.

WXC seems to be a company more focused on technical excellence rather that satisfying customers needs.

I do know that other MAJOR ISP's will be entering this market and I do feel that these cause WXC major damage in this market.

My advice to others looking toward business customer solutions are that WXC are way too hard to engage in a successful relationship and to look elsewhere.

 

These are my experiences and I have held many discussions with the WXC team and are disappointed to have of come to this conclusion.


Alan Scott
CodeBlue, Hamilton
http://www.codeblue.co.nz

Create new topic
836 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

  # 107889 1-Feb-2008 00:44
Send private message

1. UNS is a CBR product so if you get a 256kbps service you are guaranteed 256kbps bridged ethernet throughput in full duplex where as UBS is a "CBR" of 32kbps averaged over 5 minutes I think from memory. Then there is the fact SLA levels around avalability time to repair etc, latency, frame loss, jitter are quite different from UBS and aimed at business grade real time data transmission where as UBS is a best efforts Internet transmisson product.

2. At least 700kbps? All 15 sites must be close to their respective cabinets to all have >700kbps upstream sync speeds not to mention taking into account PPP overheads? I doubt they have much conjestion on their Telecom GigE handover from their subscriber numbers. It is the different between the products outlined above which will be their reasoning. One would expect with EUBA this policy might change.

WxC's policys here seem rational to me and most other integrators I talk with. Everyone is eager for alternatives to the current UBS product for business deployments, its not just yourselves feeling frustrated.

3. Im sure you will get an answer on this shortly ;) 5 DDIs seems a reasonable entry level to me however.



4 posts

Wannabe Geek


  # 107893 1-Feb-2008 02:19
Send private message

While in some respects I do agree, from a business sense and customers sense I cannot. UNS as a product from locations outside Auckland for a 1Mb circuit will cost a customer around $1000 per month. Would you pay $1000 per month for a trunk with 5 DDI's ????

As I say the proof is in the customers we already have running with theses services.

An example of how crazy the logic is, we have a wireless provider who WXC has allowed customers to direct connect with business trunks. This provider I also have tested with. The network latency / jitter when using this provider is very high but from a WXC point they are happy. Makes little or no sense to me.

Whatever way you want to put it, 90% of NZ broadband customers are and will continue to be ADSL based. If WXC do not want to supply these customers then from our perspective they have a product that is not compatible with the market which they are playing in.


The thing I find most annoying in the fact that WXC seems to be run by technicians rather than business people. Every successful IT company I have ever worked for / with has been market driven. Can we say the same about WXC?


 
 
 
 


cisconz
1210 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 95

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 107903 1-Feb-2008 08:21
Send private message

CodeBlue:
3. They will only sell a minimum of 5 DDI's. With ITALK I can get as many concurrent calls as my bandwidth will allow @ $10 per month (per trunk / DDI). Many small companies don’t want and don’t need lots of DDI’s. What they need is call concurrency. This concept seems to be foreign to the people at WXC!

WxC do supply concurrent calling, buy a voice channel rather than a DDI then you can have 1 number with 2 or more concurrent calls.

CodeBlue:

We really wanted to do business with WXC and were looking at transferring all our VoIP customers across. But because of the company’s ill conceived ideas and inflexibility we will be unable to.

WXC seems to be a company more focused on technical excellence rather that satisfying customers needs.

When the call quality drops through ITalk how can you complain? They will not listen if there were 2 or more concurrent calls at that time as you have only paid for 1.





Hmmmm


205 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 1

Trusted
WorldxChange

  # 107907 1-Feb-2008 08:43
Send private message

Hi CodeBlue,

Just in reply to your post, there are a number of different products across the WxC network, one of which appear to be what you are talking about called Direct Connect.. this is terminated to a different part of the network than the likes of our VFX/DVX service.. we also require on the VFX/DVX side of the network that your device has been certified and are happy with the way that it intercommunicates with our internal hardware..

The Direct option has been supplied to you because you are using Asterisk as your PBX, this currently isn't a supported device on our DVX service, the only offical devices at this time are the epigy quadro range and the linksys spa9000, we have been testing with Asterisk across our VFX service as you will see in a number of other forums, currently it is only open to VFX, dependant on how the performance across the VFX network goes this will be a major deciding factor as to if/when we are able to support it on our DVX range.

Because of the nature of a Direct Connect, we limit what connections are/aren't suitable, ADSL for this type of connection is not deemed suitable, as mentioned above a guaranteed thruput is available with UNS, where as with ADSL this is not the case.  THe Direc Connect type of connection is more targeted at your mid to larger organisations where as the DVX service is targeted at small to medium..

DVX does not have the same requirements as above, and as you are aware we are able to service it across a number of different mediums many of which are ADSL customers.. we are as mentioned monitoring Asterisk and its performance with VFX..

Thanks

Josh




3539 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 125

Trusted

  # 107934 1-Feb-2008 10:22
Send private message

CodeBlue: The thing I find most annoying in the fact that WXC seems to be run by technicians rather than business people. Every successful IT company I have ever worked for / with has been market driven. Can we say the same about WXC?

From an outside perspective, I cannot say for sure whether WxC is run by technicians rather than business people as you say.  Certainly, many of the people I have dealt with are on the technical side.  But Cecil the CEO, has a very smart business brain on his shoulders from the dealings I have had with him, and the interviews/articles I have seen published about him.

Maybe WxC is a little unusual in that they have a high concentration of technical people in senior posts?

But it is also obvious to anyone who has been around Geekzone for a while, that their level of committment to supporting and interacting with customers via 3rd party on-line forums is unique in NZ.

Maybe these two factors are related?

Having dealt with many other organisations that are "market driven" over the years, I am in no doubt as to which approach I prefer.  Market Driven organisations are typically "faceless" and hide behind PR people when the going gets tough.

WxC on the other hand have a policy of fronting up to the difficult questions; helping to resolve thorny issues where possible, and at other times taking valid criticism on the chin as a pointer to issues which need improvement.

Maverick has said on many occasions that they cannot please everybody.  Their focus is on providing a service which "just works" and is of sufficient reliability to be taken seriously as a contender for PSTN replacement.  Having used iTalk for around 6 months prior to signing up for VFX, I know first-hand, that the same cannot be said for iTalk.  In all honesty, I don't know how anyone could seriously contemplate using it for business purposes.  You may get more concurrent calls, and it may be cheaper, but how often does it fail?

Just my 2c worth anyway...

6347 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 402

Moderator
Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 108045 1-Feb-2008 19:23
Send private message

CodeBlue:

1. They wont supply business trunks across ADSL? The strange thing is that they seem very happy to provide via UNS which is delivered over EXACTLY the same medium as ADSL. Telecom will tell you that they monitor UNS and this is the reason that WXC say they will allow it. I have had 1st hand experience at this and can tell you it is a load of rubbish.

Not quite correct - they won't supply business trunks over ADSL to uncertified devices.  Since you are using their Direct Connect product (a requirement if you wish to use Asterisk with DVX) you have to use an access method superior to ADSL.  While UNS may be delivered over the same medium as ADSL, UNS is a superior service with synchronise speeds achievable (I believe up to 2Mbps both ways).

2. If the argument is one of capacity, we were happy to take dedicated ADSL circuits with WXC which should mean at least 700kb of outbound traffic is available. If the circuit has a capacity issue, does this mean that WXC has a overloaded termination into to ADSL world??? If this is the case is WXC saying that their own ADSL service is substandard?

The argument is not of capacity, but of reliability. If WxC ensures you have a rock solid access method, then they can guarantee a high level of service right up to your Asterisk box.  By doing this, they remove most of the unknowns when trying to diagnose any issues.

3. They will only sell a minimum of 5 DDI's. With ITALK I can get as many concurrent calls as my bandwidth will allow @ $10 per month (per trunk / DDI). Many small companies don’t want and don’t need lots of DDI’s. What they need is call concurrency. This concept seems to be foreign to the people at WXC!

To compare WxC to iTalk is completely wrong.  Do a search of GZ and see the large number of people who have swapped from iTalk to WxC because iTalk is highly unreliable and poorly supported by their customer service.  Ever wonder why iTalk can afford to charge $10 for unlimited concurrent calls?

We really wanted to do business with WXC and were looking at transferring all our VoIP customers across. But because of the company’s ill conceived ideas and inflexibility we will be unable to.

Why do you want to swap all your clients to WxC? Because they offer a good product, and excellent support.  How have they achieved this? Through careful control over what connects to their network, and keeping a close eye on everything.

WXC seems to be a company more focused on technical excellence rather that satisfying customers needs.


Wrong.  Search GZ and see how many people are more than happy with WxC's products and support.

I do know that other MAJOR ISP's will be entering this market and I do feel that these cause WXC major damage in this market.

Good.  Competition is always a good thing.  But keep in mind, bringing a VoIP platform and products to market isn't just flipping a switch.  There is a lot of work and time involved.  WxC have made a good head start in this area, and this is certainly to their advantage.

My advice to others looking toward business customer solutions are that WXC are way too hard to engage in a successful relationship and to look elsewhere.

 

These are my experiences and I have held many discussions with the WXC team and are disappointed to have of come to this conclusion.


Rubbish.  Our company daily interacts with WxC, and I have nothing but praise for a well-run, excellently supported company.  For example, when something goes wrong, and a user posts on this forum, how many other companies come to the party, and publicly work the issue out?

We have a large base of business VoIP customers throughout NZ and Australia, all of who use WxC.  Earlier on we invested a significant amount of time and effort to get the Epygi Quadro range certified, which wasn't an easy task, but it means that all the devices on their network are of the highest standard. I'm pleased that WxC lock down their service as it ensures my clients have nothing but the best experience with VoIP.

I'm sorry Alan, but to say WxC has "ill conceived ideas and inflexibility" because they won't play by your rules is very short sighted on your part

If you can't work with them, stick with iTalk.  Good luck.

Nathan Dunn
Director - 3Bit

80 posts

Master Geek


  # 108092 2-Feb-2008 01:07
Send private message

WXC seems to be a company more focused on technical excellence rather that satisfying customers needs.

One would hope the two go hand in hand :).

 
 
 
 


3594 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 79

Trusted
WorldxChange

  # 108117 2-Feb-2008 09:19
Send private message

Hi Alan,

Thanks for the comments always interested in seeing how people perceive our services, I am just off to the Sevens but if you PM your contact number I will give you a call on Monday and discuss what we are doing and why as there is a bit of confusion here, 

Josh has explained these but it might be better if I have a chat and discuss some options for you, you are right though in that we do strive for technical excellnce...(it's my holy Mecca) and we think delivering the services we do is actually in touch with the Customers needs as we don't want to deliver a service that is not quality and customers don't want ssomething that will work occassionaly and with issues.

But as I said PM your details and we can have a chat.


Phil Moore
Operations Manager
WorldxChange Communications




Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

https://www.facebook.com/wxccommunications

890 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 64

Subscriber

  # 108157 2-Feb-2008 15:01
Send private message

We signed up to WxC's DVX product in Nov/Dec.  Thanks to our PABX provider previously working to get their asterisk product allowed on the WXC for a previous client there was no problems there.

We were looking at getting another ADSL line solely for the SIP Trunks while we didnt go down that road WxC only concerns with ADSL were to make sure they were providing the ADSL connection so they could make sure the trunks were more reliable than say if we used Xtra and that we werent going to expect too much from ADSL (ie how many simultaneous calls were we hoping to have).

Instead we used our main fibre connection and just used QoS on it to ensure theres 2megs spare bandwidth for the SIP Trunks.

Shelly from provisioning at WxC couldnt have been more helpful we had a channel partner who went away on holiday without telling us and had other general communications problems with the partner (had to fax the same form multiple times etc, chase the guy up only to find he hadnt done things etc..) but WxC staff made sure we were connected as soon as was possible (quicker than is normally done due to the fact we were behind schedule and we required the trunks urgently before half of the BRI's we currently had were disconnected.

Ontop of that WxC followed up with the problems we had with the channel partner as well.  So basically the staff were extremely helpful!

Create new topic



Twitter and LinkedIn »



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Anyone can broadcast with Kordia Pop Up TV
Posted 13-Jun-2019 10:51


Volvo and Uber present production vehicle ready for self-driving
Posted 13-Jun-2019 10:47


100,000 customers connected to fibre broadband network through Enable
Posted 13-Jun-2019 10:35


5G uptake even faster than expected
Posted 12-Jun-2019 10:01


Xbox showcases 60 anticipated games
Posted 10-Jun-2019 20:24


Trend Micro Turns Public Hotspots into Secure Networks with WiFi Protection for Mobile Devices
Posted 5-Jun-2019 13:24


Bold UK spinoff for beauty software company Flossie
Posted 2-Jun-2019 14:10


Amazon Introduces Echo Show 5
Posted 1-Jun-2019 15:32


Epson launches new 4K Pro-UHD projector technology
Posted 1-Jun-2019 15:26


Lenovo and Qualcomm unveil first 5G PC called Project Limitless
Posted 28-May-2019 20:23


Intel introduces new 10th Gen Intel Core Processors and Project Athena
Posted 28-May-2019 19:28


Orcon first to trial residential 10Gbps broadband
Posted 28-May-2019 11:20


Video game market in New Zealand passes half billion dollar mark
Posted 24-May-2019 16:15


WLG-X festival to celebrate creativity and innovation
Posted 22-May-2019 17:53


HPE to acquire supercomputing leader Cray
Posted 20-May-2019 11:07



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.