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Topic # 191699 12-Feb-2016 21:06
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Hello all,

 

I have just had Vodafone 4G LTE RBI installed and while it's a mile better than my end-of-the-line ADSL, I was surprised to see that they installed only a single enclosed antenna.  One of these:  http://www.gowifi.co.nz/antennas-1710-2100mhz-directio/11dbi-wideband-lte-broadband-directional-antenna.html

 

4G LTE requires TWO antennas to perform properly (MIMO - multi-in, multi-out).  The antenna used is ideal, but there needs to be two of them, pointing the same direction, one vertical plane, one horizontal plane.

 

Good article here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cB1v_YDqjOk

 

I suggested this to the contractors who said they have been doing installs for 2 years and have never used two antennas, and they had never heard the term MIMO.  It did make sense to them since there are two antenna ports on the B315 router.  Can't blame them though as they are working under very tight directive/contracts.

 

Fortunately they were willing to lay a second cable for me (at my cost) and I bought and fitted a second antenna myself.

 

I am 13km from the current tower well out of line-of-sight (a nearer tower has yet to have 4G enabled) here are the results:

 

One antenna:  average 28-32mbps down / 6-8mbps up

 

Two antennas: average 45-48mbps down / 10-11mbps up

 

Seems a shame that Vodafone would skimp on the antennas after spending so much on the rest of the infrastructure.

 

Do yourself a favor folks and ask your friendly installer to put another cable in for you, then jump online to gowifi and get yourself a second antenna (or, Vodafone stop being so tight and install two for your customers!) . - The router will (should) automatically select external antenna for both ports, but you can set this manually as I did via the admin screens.


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  Reply # 1491405 12-Feb-2016 21:22
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Maybe MIMO is not supported in all places maybe so using 1 Antenna to have a standard install everywhere.

 

Making all installs use 2 Antenna when MIMO is not available would be a waste of money.

 

 

 

 




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  Reply # 1491411 12-Feb-2016 21:28
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4G LTE is by definition MIMO


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1491422 12-Feb-2016 21:52
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I thought MIMO is more to do with the baseband chip (i.e. radio)?

 

Having two antennas is about diversity.


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  Reply # 1769254 23-Apr-2017 15:44
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jfrance: The antenna used is ideal, but there needs to be two of them, pointing the same direction, one vertical plane, one horizontal plane.


This article https://www.telcoantennas.com.au/site/how-does-mimo-work talks about the polarisation being 45 degrees and 135 degrees which aligns with the spec of this antenna http://poynting.tech/product/xpol-1/. Is that the case here too?


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  Reply # 1769305 23-Apr-2017 18:41
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Yes MIMO or twin antennas is best for LTE.. absolutely!

As most RSP have a limited amount of cost they can absorb for each connection twin antennas are not feasible, most mass market contractors for Vodafone or other large RBI providers would not install any more than 1 x antenna as the RSP would not promote another option. That is where smaller RSP come in.

We offer twin antennas and multiple antenna options in all installs but they all cost more and the install time is increased when running two cables as well. In most cases customers don't take up the dual setup and additional costs.

It all comes down to what the customer is prepared to pay.







www.ultimatebroadband.co.nz 
Delivering better broadband services

UFB fibre, Rural fibre on EA networks, RBI wireless, Ruralnet & Ultra wireless, wireless networks


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  Reply # 1769336 23-Apr-2017 19:28
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It's cost end of story

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Ex JohnR VodafoneNZ 17 years 4 days

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  Reply # 1769351 23-Apr-2017 19:53
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Using your own link, $68 for the antenna and another $54 for the cable, so an extra $132 for 5mb down and 2-3 up would be a wasted effort for most 'normal' users who quite likely couldn't find a use for that anyway?


Look at the current ADSL2+ modem request and they're happy with 18mb down and can't be bothered to join the available VDSL and Fibre that goes live in their street this month(!)

We'd kill for that option but most can't be bothered 😕

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=66&topicid=214005



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  Reply # 1769362 23-Apr-2017 20:17
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scottjpalmer:
jfrance: The antenna used is ideal, but there needs to be two of them, pointing the same direction, one vertical plane, one horizontal plane.


This article https://www.telcoantennas.com.au/site/how-does-mimo-work talks about the polarisation being 45 degrees and 135 degrees which aligns with the spec of this antenna http://poynting.tech/product/xpol-1/. Is that the case here too?

 

Yeah, I actually tweaked my brackets to be 45/135 based on these guys design (and to make them look slightly better on the roof).  No real noticeable performance difference.  I've helped heaps of people put two antennas up since I started this post.  They are all vertical/horizontal mounted due to the bracket that comes with the antenna.  All installs give WAY better performance (generally at least twice the up/down speeds - often more).  The installers seem OK with installing 2 cables.  User supplies/installs second antenna themselves.  Cheers.


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  Reply # 1769368 23-Apr-2017 20:42
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I've got good signal strength but probably won't in an internal cupboard behind corrugated iron cladding. Haven't chosen an operator so might do this or similar http://www.ead-ltd.com/antennas/external-antennas/LMO7270-4G-LTE-Multiband-MIMO-omni-antenna

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  Reply # 1769370 23-Apr-2017 20:46
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"In an agreement signed with the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE), Vodafone has increased its 4G wireless broadband peak download speed commitment from 5Mbps to 30Mbps. Its 4G peak upload speed commitment has increased from 500Kbps to 5Mbps." Aug 2016

That seems to have been achieved with one aerial. From Vodafone's position perhaps improvement on that is at the expense of site capacity eg 2 customers with dual aerials or 3 with single aerial.

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  Reply # 1769376 23-Apr-2017 21:07
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From our experience the capacity of the site & the minimum/max peak speed claims are not related.

MIMO has radio network benefits for both ends of the link, speed is not the only motivation, also having 2 antennas doesn't reduce available connections on a site either. MIMO makes the CPE more efficient inline with the AP/base sector running MIMO.

It's all about the numbers.





www.ultimatebroadband.co.nz 
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UFB fibre, Rural fibre on EA networks, RBI wireless, Ruralnet & Ultra wireless, wireless networks




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  Reply # 1769432 23-Apr-2017 22:06
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scottjpalmer: I've got good signal strength but probably won't in an internal cupboard behind corrugated iron cladding. Haven't chosen an operator so might do this or similar http://www.ead-ltd.com/antennas/external-antennas/LMO7270-4G-LTE-Multiband-MIMO-omni-antenna

 

You'd probably be better to use higher gain directional (yagi-style) than omni-directional (assuming you can put something on your roof).  Onmi are better suited to mobile installations (boats, RVs etc) where they don't have the advantage of permanently pointing to the best cell-site.  But, if you're restricted to your cupboard, a decent onmi will still likely out-perform the internal omni-antennas of the 4G router.

 

From personal experience, my router (in the cupboard - using internal antennas) gave about 3mbps, single yagi on roof about 20-30mbps and dual-yagi 50-70mbps.


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  Reply # 1769474 24-Apr-2017 06:44
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All 3 operators towers are within 5km and line of sight so it's not about performance it's about having an antenna outside. As the towers are in 3 different directions an omni will allow me to chop and change SIMs while I test etc without having to get on the roof to reorientate. I'm not going true RBI just yet as my usage will be low, just using standard mobile plan/prepay.

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