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freitasm

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#19927 6-Mar-2008 19:26
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Hello folks... Some questions here about moving *and* porting *and* unbundling...

Parents-in-law are moving house, and even though it's just five minutes away, Telecom says they can't keep the number they have had for the last few years - what, ten, fifteen, twenty years?

So it's a good opportunity to port the number to WorldxChange, get naked DSL, and get VFX.

But how do we know if the current exchange supports number portability?

Next, they have a couple of mobile phones on this bill, so I am thinking of transferring to their fax line - which I guess will have to stay unless we can have a fax solution over IP from VFX? - and then port the number to VFX.




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grant_k
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  #115042 6-Mar-2008 20:12
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freitasm: But how do we know if the current exchange supports number portability?

It's pretty rare that the exchange doesn't support number portability, but like you, I have heard of it happening.  Best to check with Maverick.

freitasm: ...unless we can have a fax solution over IP from VFX? - and then port the number to VFX.

I have sent National faxes successfully from SPA2102 and WRTP54G.  I would think WAG54GP2 would also be OK for fax, but haven't tried it.  PAP2T is not recommended.

However, if you want to send faxes overseas, a POTS line is still necessary.

HTH,
Grant.


 
 
 

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camo786
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  #115045 6-Mar-2008 20:15
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One would make the assumption the fax line is on the same account

Even if you ported both the landline numbers, Telecom wont disconnect the mobiles, they will keep sending you and invoice for them, they are good like that

Therefore you could get XNET Fusion, with 2 x VFX lines and port both numbers

The fax number, once ported could be setup to unconditional call forward to 2talk fax service, which will then email faxes to you, and you can use 2talk to send fax messages too via email

You can always hang fax machine off a papt2, as I guess they have physical fax machine, this works ok, but not 100%

I didnt think the exchange had anything to do with portability, but if someone can elaborate I'm interested to know


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  #115046 6-Mar-2008 20:16
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What plans are the phones on? If they are on "Go Onebill" then this plan will be unable to be retained without being on the same account as a residential landline (fax line counts as long as its a residential account).










grant_k
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  #115048 6-Mar-2008 20:21
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camo786: I didnt think the exchange had anything to do with portability, but if someone can elaborate I'm interested to know

There are a small number of exchanges around the country which are just so antiquated that they cannot handle NP.  Telecom have an exemption in respect of those exchanges.  There may be some time limit on the exemption, but I'm not sure.

n00dy
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  #115052 6-Mar-2008 20:34
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tonyhughes: What plans are the phones on? If they are on "Go Onebill" then this plan will be unable to be retained without being on the same account as a residential landline (fax line counts as long as its a residential account).


There is a small loophole with telecom's go onebill, basically, if a person switches from telecom to another company and they have phones on go onebill the phones remain on that plan as long as the account is not closed, however if changes are made to the mobile phones in any way then they have to be moved to another call plan. The system doesnt realise that the fixed line is no longer with telecom and the phones continue to be billed. Have had many occasions where a customer has come in to either upgrade or change voice mail or anything we have had to call it through and are then advised the customer is on go onebill however the customer  no longer has fixed line service, when we ask the customer it appears they moved the landline business up to a year ago.

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  #115060 6-Mar-2008 21:05
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n00dy:
tonyhughes: What plans are the phones on? If they are on "Go Onebill" then this plan will be unable to be retained without being on the same account as a residential landline (fax line counts as long as its a residential account).


There is a small loophole with telecom's go onebill, basically, if a person switches from telecom to another company and they have phones on go onebill the phones remain on that plan as long as the account is not closed, however if changes are made to the mobile phones in any way then they have to be moved to another call plan. The system doesnt realise that the fixed line is no longer with telecom and the phones continue to be billed. Have had many occasions where a customer has come in to either upgrade or change voice mail or anything we have had to call it through and are then advised the customer is on go onebill however the customer no longer has fixed line service, when we ask the customer it appears they moved the landline business up to a year ago.

Sure - the loophole is there, but the business rule is still pretty clear. Important that people are aware of this either way :)







cisconz
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  #115076 6-Mar-2008 22:23
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freitasm: Hello folks... Some questions here about moving *and* porting *and* unbundling...

Parents-in-law are moving house, and even though it's just five minutes away, Telecom says they can't keep the number they have had for the last few years - what, ten, fifteen, twenty years?


In theory all numbers are able to be ported to any address in the same local calling area.

freitasm: So it's a good opportunity to port the number to WorldxChange, get naked DSL, and get VFX.


Very True

freitasm: But how do we know if the current exchange supports number portability?


Fill in the forms and see if they get rejected. You could always customer link the old numbers until they are able to be ported.




Hmmmm




bazzer
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  #115141 7-Mar-2008 10:42
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I'm trying to understand the question.  Are you hoping for your parents-in-law to keep their existing number at their new house but without keeping the telecom line?  I don't see how number portability in the exchange affects that?  If they have VFX, aren't the numbers supplied via IP not through the exchange?

I'm interested, because I have the same problem.  I'm moving suburbs so Telecom says I can't take my number.  If I ported it to VoIP, then won't they just let me use that number anywhere, regardless of geography?

Then, later on if I want to port back to Telecom (as long as I'm in the same local calling zone, ie. Auckland?) don't they have to let me?  I thought that's what number portability is about.  Otherwise, what's the point?  "Local number portability enables a customer to change their telecommunications provider but retain the same telephone number within a local calling area."  What's local calling area defined as?

When I rang to ask Telecom they basically only talked about Woosh.  I mentioned WorldxChange a number of times, but they didn't want to know.  If I have a number (any number) with WorldxChange (VFX?) at my house, subject to exemption if the exchange can't handle it, does Telecom have to let me port that number to my Telecom line?  If the exchange will accept arbitrary 9XX-XXXX numbers, why wouldn't it accept "arbitrary" XXX-XXXX numbers?

Finally, does VFX allow me to use my current number (if ported) in any suburb in Auckland (for example)?

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  #115145 7-Mar-2008 10:56
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If you are going to keep a POTS line for fax, wouldn't it be cheaper to get ADSL on this line rather than go naked - you could then use the VFX over ADSL for voice.

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  #115148 7-Mar-2008 10:59
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bazzer: I'm trying to understand the question.  Are you hoping for your parents-in-law to keep their existing number at their new house but without keeping the telecom line?  I don't see how number portability in the exchange affects that?  If they have VFX, aren't the numbers supplied via IP not through the exchange?


The issue here is that they are moving from one property to another that's appromiately 10km max away but obviously on a different exchanges. Telecom can't (or won't) allow them to keep their number when they move.

freitasm

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  #115151 7-Mar-2008 11:08
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And also if Telecom can't keep the number, I wonder if there's a way to find out if this is due to any restriction on the exchange that would prevent NP working.




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freitasm

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  #115152 7-Mar-2008 11:09
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wongtop: If you are going to keep a POTS line for fax, wouldn't it be cheaper to get ADSL on this line rather than go naked - you could then use the VFX over ADSL for voice.


This is probably the best solution too.




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bazzer
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  #115157 7-Mar-2008 11:21
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sbiddle:
bazzer: I'm trying to understand the question.  Are you hoping for your parents-in-law to keep their existing number at their new house but without keeping the telecom line?  I don't see how number portability in the exchange affects that?  If they have VFX, aren't the numbers supplied via IP not through the exchange?


The issue here is that they are moving from one property to another that's appromiately 10km max away but obviously on a different exchanges. Telecom can't (or won't) allow them to keep their number when they move.

OK, I got that part (I thought my reply kinda made that clear).  The part I'm still interested in is the solution to the problem.  If one ports to VFX, the number can be taken anywhere in Auckland, right?  If I then later have that number with VFX and I want to port to Telecom (I'm in the same local calling area but a different exchange) don't they have to let me port it if they can?  If the exchange can port 9XX-XXXX numbers why not any XXX-XXXX number?  Are there any exchanges that will allow it, if not, what's the point of local number portability?  I would have thought "Telecom won't" is no longer an option.  "Can't" I could accept, but I would question where, if anywhere, they "can".

Unless I misundertand things, what's the significance of exchange restrictions to NP, if we're talking about VoIP.  Are we not talking about VoIP (naked DSL etc, I thought we were).  As long as you get a broadband conenction at the new place, what role does the exchange play in number portability to VoIP?

cisconz
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  #115161 7-Mar-2008 11:38
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bazzer: I'm trying to understand the question. Are you hoping for your parents-in-law to keep their existing number at their new house but without keeping the telecom line? I don't see how number portability in the exchange affects that? If they have VFX, aren't the numbers supplied via IP not through the exchange?


It seems this exchange is exempt from portability for a time, therefore you cannot port a number to or from this exchange.
(If you did and the exchange was 09 828 XXXX then all calls from 09 828 XXXX would still go via the POTS to the old address.All other calls would go to the vfx number.)

bazzer: I'm interested, because I have the same problem. I'm moving suburbs so Telecom says I can't take my number. If I ported it to VoIP, then won't they just let me use that number anywhere, regardless of geography?


Yes that is correct however as above if the exchange is exempt then you cannot port it.


bazzer: Then, later on if I want to port back to Telecom (as long as I'm in the same local calling zone, ie. Auckland?) don't they have to let me? I thought that's what number portability is about. Otherwise, what's the point? "Local number portability enables a customer to change their telecommunications provider but retain the same telephone number within a local calling area." What's local calling area defined as?

Yes that is correct unless you are on an exchange that is exempt.

bazzer: When I rang to ask Telecom they basically only talked about Woosh. I mentioned WorldxChange a number of times, but they didn't want to know. If I have a number (any number) with WorldxChange (VFX?) at my house, subject to exemption if the exchange can't handle it, does Telecom have to let me port that number to my Telecom line? If the exchange will accept arbitrary 9XX-XXXX numbers, why wouldn't it accept "arbitrary" XXX-XXXX numbers?

As above the exchange is unable to except any number bar its own range. that would not be possible

bazzer: Finally, does VFX allow me to use my current number (if ported) in any suburb in Auckland (for example)?


Yes indeedy.

bazzer: Unless I misundertand things, what's the significance of exchange restrictions to NP, if we're talking about VoIP. Are we not talking about VoIP (naked DSL etc, I thought we were). As long as you get a broadband conenction at the new place, what role does the exchange play in number portability to VoIP?

You are sort of correct. the exchange only affects calls routing from the same range as the exchange. as above with the 09 828 XXXX example.





Hmmmm


grant_k
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  #115164 7-Mar-2008 11:48
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bazzer: Are you hoping for your parents-in-law to keep their existing number at their new house but without keeping the telecom line?

Mauricio's PIL just want to keep their existing number while moving house.

-  If they retain a standard Telecom POTS line, Telecom have said they can't do it (but must change to a different number)

-  This is Telecom's policy regardless of whether the respective exchanges are exempt from NP or not

-  The new NP rules only affect PORT OUT requests (which all Telcos must comply with subject to specific exemptions) they do not affect the ability to PORT IN (which is dictated by each Telco's policy in this area)

-  Whereas if they port that number to a VoIP provider, they can keep the same number anywhere within the same local calling area

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