Vodafone NZ locking down devices(Blackberry) - Forcing individuals to signon to BIS / BES plans

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nisch

39 posts

Geek

#22377 26-May-2008 14:13

Hello Everyone,

Vodafone NZ is locking down the blackberry devices and are not opening it for plain data access (Internet usage only and GPS Maps) which is a low cost effective solution for individuals. To be able to use internet through a blackberry device, customers have to sign on to BIS / BES services. Unfortunately vodafone retail stores are not aware of it and sell this solution to the customers, it is their technical support teams that advice customers of the limitations that Vodafone has setup on these devices. I have been through a lot of trouble getting these services (4 days phone being switched off change plans) and finally I am told that I need to sign on to another plan by technical support. This is quite unfair, these devices are open in other countries and customers can choose the access methods. New Zealand being a small market and these businesses having almost no competition are making it difficult to the customers to get cost effective mobile data access. Regards,

Nisch

VFNZPaulBrislen

970 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

Vodafone

#133307 26-May-2008 15:08

Actually I don't think that's right.

The Blackberrys are locked down to the Blackberry service for email and for browsing using the BB browser (obviously), but you can get to Vodafone Live without any Blackberry plan and if you install a third-party browser you shouldn't have any problem at all access the wider internet.

Have you tried that?

Cheers

Paul

Paul Brislen
Head of Corporate Communications
Vodafone

http://forum.vodafone.co.nz

nisch

39 posts

Geek

#133311 26-May-2008 15:27

Hi Paul,

I have MiniOpera browser installed on my BB curve and tried to use it with only Data plan active and it failed. Also, the network access indicator was still 'gprs' instead of 'GPRS' for data plans.

I spoke to Blackberry support at vodafone, 0800 921021 and provided the details of my requirement to only use internet and the plan that I have subscribed to. I was advised that I will not be able to access Internet or any other features without BIS plan.

Thanks,

Regards,

Nisch

BigDave

115 posts

Master Geek

Trusted

Vodafone NZ

#133312 26-May-2008 15:34

nisch: Hello Everyone,

Vodafone NZ is locking down the blackberry devices and are not opening it for plain data access (Internet usage only and GPS Maps) which is a low cost effective solution for individuals. To be able to use internet through a blackberry device, customers have to sign on to BIS / BES services. Unfortunately vodafone retail stores are not aware of it and sell this solution to the customers, it is their technical support teams that advice customers of the limitations that Vodafone has setup on these devices. I have been through a lot of trouble getting these services (4 days phone being switched off change plans) and finally I am told that I need to sign on to another plan by technical support. This is quite unfair, these devices are open in other countries and customers can choose the access methods. New Zealand being a small market and these businesses having almost no competition are making it difficult to the customers to get cost effective mobile data access. Regards,
Nisch

If you purchase a Blackberry without a Blackberry Plan of any sort you are buying a lemon...

Blackberry has designed the devices to require a service connection to them! to allow them to function for all the services that you want. they are controlled by service books which are aquired via a piece of Blackberry Infrastructure.

Do you think that Blackberry provide access to this infrastructure for free? No, they charge for providing a service, and in every case where a vendor pass's a cost to a carrier the carrier in turn pass's a cost to the customer.

So before blaming a carrier or the sales staff who do exactly that sell things, I would advise in future do some research, you have found yourself here complaining.. try asking questions people are quite knowledgable on this site that I have found and I'm sure if you ask nicely :) you will get some nice well rounded responses.

My views are mine and don't necessarily reflect that of my employer.

VFNZPaulBrislen

970 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

Vodafone

#133318 26-May-2008 15:50

nisch: Hi Paul,

I have MiniOpera browser installed on my BB curve and tried to use it with only Data plan active and it failed. Also, the network access indicator was still 'gprs' instead of 'GPRS' for data plans.

I spoke to Blackberry support at vodafone, 0800 921021 and provided the details of my requirement to only use internet and the plan that I have subscribed to. I was advised that I will not be able to access Internet or any other features without BIS plan.
Thanks,
Regards,
Nisch

Let me look into it and get back to you. My understanding is quite different but then I'm not that close to the Blackberry team.

I'll find out and let you know.

Cheers

Paul

Paul Brislen
Head of Corporate Communications
Vodafone

http://forum.vodafone.co.nz

BigDave

115 posts

Master Geek

Trusted

Vodafone NZ

#133323 26-May-2008 16:18

nisch: Hi Paul,

I have MiniOpera browser installed on my BB curve and tried to use it with only Data plan active and it failed. Also, the network access indicator was still 'gprs' instead of 'GPRS' for data plans.

I spoke to Blackberry support at vodafone, 0800 921021 and provided the details of my requirement to only use internet and the plan that I have subscribed to. I was advised that I will not be able to access Internet or any other features without BIS plan.
Thanks,
Regards,
Nisch

GPRS in CAPS signifies that the device is in contact with Blackberry infrastructure. again this is to do with whether service books can be optained.

What was the APN that you are routing the Opera Browser through?

My views are mine and don't necessarily reflect that of my employer.

nisch

39 posts

Geek

#133328 26-May-2008 16:33

I am using live.vodafone.com for APN.

Nothing is given for Free, I agree that blackberry / vodafone have to charge, but it has to be realistic and on the type of usage being done. There are lots of other features that Blackberry has other then only accessing emails. I did read up on the access available and I assumed that vodafone retail stores do provide the correct information and care about their reputation.

Blackberry forums in other countries have posts that have such access allowed.

Cheers,
Nisch

mikal

172 posts

Master Geek

#133405 26-May-2008 20:45

Well i was told...
BIS/BES are the Internet/e-mail capable plans for the Blackberry. As all the data routes through RIM servers in Canada?
So even though your paying $35 for 10MB its all compressed data anyways.
The way I see it its not the e-mail your paying for its the Internet data fee for Blackberry that has the capability of e-mail.
So i mean you do get some value for money because it is compressed a fair bit

nisch

39 posts

Geek

#133432 26-May-2008 21:55

Mikal,

I have no doubt that BIS plan must be quite good, but for personal use, the cost goes upto $40 for BIS with GST and over that a minimum $20 for voice plan and for individual this is quite expensive if one is not using the phone for business purpose.

Cheers,
Nisch

nzbnw

2366 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Spark

#133433 26-May-2008 21:56

Correct, if I recall I think 1.5MB on a WM device works out to 24 odd MB on a blackberry with data compression, so it's not all bad.I’m not sure how Vodafone controls their blackberries, but with Telecom, you must take out a Blackberry Plan, i.e. it’s not optional. Not sure how GSM carriers go about this, perhaps to-do with the problems the OP is experiencing and gprs vs. GPRS?
nzbnw

BigDave

115 posts

Master Geek

Trusted

Vodafone NZ

#133488 27-May-2008 08:40

nisch: I am using live.vodafone.com for APN.

Nothing is given for Free, I agree that blackberry / vodafone have to charge, but it has to be realistic and on the type of usage being done. There are lots of other features that Blackberry has other then only accessing emails. I did read up on the access available and I assumed that vodafone retail stores do provide the correct information and care about their reputation.

Blackberry forums in other countries have posts that have such access allowed.

Cheers,
Nisch

I would probably use an analogy of:

You went out an bought a RolesRoyce/HSV/FPV something with a huge engine, and and are now complaining about the amount of ongoing costs you are faced with (fuel/maintenance) if you dont want the costs associated with a Blackberry get a standard vlive type phone they should be 1/2 the cost of a Blackberry anyway....

My views are mine and don't necessarily reflect that of my employer.

VFNZPaulBrislen

970 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

Vodafone

#133501 27-May-2008 09:12

nisch: Hello Everyone,

Vodafone NZ is locking down the blackberry devices and are not opening it for plain data access (Internet usage only and GPS Maps) which is a low cost effective solution for individuals. To be able to use internet through a blackberry device, customers have to sign on to BIS / BES services. Unfortunately vodafone retail stores are not aware of it and sell this solution to the customers, it is their technical support teams that advice customers of the limitations that Vodafone has setup on these devices. I have been through a lot of trouble getting these services (4 days phone being switched off change plans) and finally I am told that I need to sign on to another plan by technical support. This is quite unfair, these devices are open in other countries and customers can choose the access methods. New Zealand being a small market and these businesses having almost no competition are making it difficult to the customers to get cost effective mobile data access. Regards,
Nisch

EDIT: Got the final version of what you can/can't do...

Vodafone Live browser on a BlackBerry absolutely WILL work without a BlackBerry data plan. As will any other application that uses either the Vodafone Live APN or allows the user to change the APN to www.vodafone.net.nz.

Any application that is forced to use the BlackBerry APN (BlackBerry email and web browser, Opera Mini) WILL require a BlackBerry plan to work.

Nisch, I think your problem may well have been more about coverage (You need GPRS not gprs on the phone to make data work) but if you're still having trouble PM me and I'll get someone to call you about it.

Cheers

Paul

Paul Brislen
Head of Corporate Communications
Vodafone

http://forum.vodafone.co.nz