Yay! Real competition to Telecom's landline

Forums › One New Zealand (including Vodafone, WxC, Farmside) › Yay! Real competition to Telecom's landline

timestyles

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#22820 9-Jun-2008 17:58

Vodafone are offering via their cellular service $25/month unlimited local calling. Toll calls are 20c a minute up to $2.50 (capped), probably worth going elsewhere to get tolls (like calling cards), you need their landline to cellular service box, but that is free until early September. You won't be able to get broadband via this service but for those who don't have a computer, it sounds pretty good. Hopefully Telecom's share price will drop a bit because of this.

http://stuff.co.nz/4577950a11.html

http://www.vodafone.co.nz/home-phone-and-broadband/home-phone-plus/

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#136728 9-Jun-2008 18:11

timestyles: Hopefully Telecom's share price will drop a bit because of this.

What possible good does this achieve?

freitasm

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#136730 9-Jun-2008 18:16

tonyhughes:
timestyles: Hopefully Telecom's share price will drop a bit because of this.

What possible good does this achieve?

Let me see: Telecom market value is reduced, less money for investments, less local loop deployments - and those are currently not being replaced by any other company because their "investment" is not in the network but in installing boxes in exchanges.

Everyone loses. Oh, wait. Vodafone Group PLC, in UK makes money out of New Zealand.

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#136759 9-Jun-2008 19:14

Or alternatively, there's been a tremendous increase in the cost of basic phone service over the past 20 years for little reason other than profit taking and now there's no room for that in the market. Customers get to choose the level of service they want and pay a price relative to that and everyone wins.

Or is that not the way things work in Mauricio World?

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Paul

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munchkin

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#136766 9-Jun-2008 19:43

Paul, 20 years ago a Telecom line cost $25/month. At an average inflation rate of 3% per year, that cost works out to $45.15 today - a standard homeline rental outside of the 04 calling region and Christchurch City is $44.85, while inside those regions it is $37.05 per month.

I'm not here to defend Telecom's pricing schemes [in fact, Telstraclear provide a phone line for $32.05/month if you have TV and internet with them], but to say that the basic cost has increased for "little reason but profit taking" is stretching it a little too far, especially as the cost hasn't kept pace with inflation.

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#136769 9-Jun-2008 19:50

Paul I was giving an extreme example. It surprise me (as it did Tony) that someone thinks that the best outcome of a company such as Vodafone bringing a new service to the market is the crash of another company.

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#136770 9-Jun-2008 19:51

I'm not suggesting Telecom's line rental has been more than the cost of living adjustment it's allowed each year. I'm questioning two things: firstly, why it's increased at all given the huge reduction in the cost of providing service over those 20 years (see also mobiles - they can be purchased without any need for line rental whatsoever and we still have two and soon three viable network operators) and secondly, why Mauricio felt the need to slag off Vodafone in his response.

Telecom was allowed by law to increase its line rental by the rate of inflation and they did so on average every year (a couple of missed years in recent times). This was supposed to offset the cost of providing free local calling to all.

Vodafone now offers free local calling for half price and free national toll calling for the same price. Yet Mauricio felt it important to point out that Vodafone NZ is owned by a UK parent company. I take umbrage at that. It's irrelevent to the thread and implies that foreign ownership is wrong.

Cheers

Paul

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#136771 9-Jun-2008 19:58

freitasm:
Paul I was giving an extreme example. It surprise me (as it did Tony) that someone thinks that the best outcome of a company such as Vodafone bringing a new service to the market is the crash of another company.

I understand that, but you should include that kind of information in your post. As it stands currently you're slagging off Vodafone for being foreign owned and providing a cheaper service. I don't think that's on.

Paul Brislen
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compost

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#136783 9-Jun-2008 20:31

I hope nobody minds me returning briefly to the product being discussed...

Note - no broadband support. Not even dial up modem support! (so there's no point trying to figure out if the box can provide 2 lines)

So on balance I still don't find this as compelling as a naked dsl offering.

I'm speculating that in 3 months time Vodafone will have some new boxes that do it all (assuming you have 3G coverage) and they're currently binning off the old inventory.

OK back to the he said she said...

I think the editorial tone of geekzone is fairly pro industry and the moderators are pretty quick to clamp down on customer plebs who get too uppity. Both Telecom and Vodafone have benefited from this stance at various times.

A time-poor geek is hardly a geek at all

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#136810 9-Jun-2008 22:42

freitasm:
tonyhughes:
timestyles: Hopefully Telecom's share price will drop a bit because of this.

What possible good does this achieve?

Let me see: Telecom market value is reduced, less money for investments, less local loop deployments - and those are currently not being replaced by any other company because their "investment" is not in the network but in installing boxes in exchanges.

Everyone loses. Oh, wait. Vodafone Group PLC, in UK makes money out of New Zealand.

are you kidding me? Finally there is some tough competition....Lots of old people who live on $200/week would rather go for $25/month free local or $40/month free national + local to talk to their relatives around the country rather than paying Telecom extra $$$ for toll calls....not everyone makes $700/week and Telecom is not going to close down because of this and if they did I for one would be a very happy man....

Do whatever you want to do man.

billgates

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#136812 9-Jun-2008 22:45

compost: I hope nobody minds me returning briefly to the product being discussed...

Note - no broadband support. Not even dial up modem support! (so there's no point trying to figure out if the box can provide 2 lines)

So on balance I still don't find this as compelling as a naked dsl offering.

I'm speculating that in 3 months time Vodafone will have some new boxes that do it all (assuming you have 3G coverage) and they're currently binning off the old inventory.

OK back to the he said she said...

I think the editorial tone of geekzone is fairly pro industry and the moderators are pretty quick to clamp down on customer plebs who get too uppity. Both Telecom and Vodafone have benefited from this stance at various times.

Vodafone has 2 local calling packs with 1gb data and 3gb data plans and the same applies for national calling plan....though it is through the vodem which isn;t so bad for a lot of elderly web surfers.....

Do whatever you want to do man.

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#136816 9-Jun-2008 23:00

Comon guys, lets not go down the road of telco-bashing. We all have our preference based on experience and our opinions.

I find a few of the comments about Telecom going out of business being a desirable outcome. When you think about it, it isn't really - if anything it will reduce competition, then you have the negative impacts of investors losing money, unemployment etc.

I strongly recommend that if people want this thread to actually be 'productive' in the forum sense, that they get over their telco hating egos/spin machines and actually discuss the topic at hand. Vodafone have launched a connection which alllows free local calling and a local landline number. Impressive, its going to appeal to some people.

It does give a lot more options for choosing a home-line voice provider, whether its a wholesaled product, telecom, llu, naked DSL (voip) or mobile-landline... that can only mean a good thing as you get more choice and more flexibility.

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munchkin

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#136819 9-Jun-2008 23:06

You actually expect me to believe that you want the 8000+ ordinary Kiwis that are employed by Telecom to lose their jobs? What kind of sadist are you?

If Telecom were to collapse tomorrow, what kind of state would this country be in? For one example, Vodafone would have 100% market share over a market in need of service - monopolies don't usually work in favour of customers. I'm also pretty sure that many many things that you take for granted would not function. Trust me when I say this, a lot of things are happening behind the scenes that you don't even have a clue about.

With regards to your point about elderly people, simplicity and safety are the two things that matter most to them - It has to "work" and it has to be reliable - will the service provided by Vodafone work during a power cut? I can guarantee that this is something that matters to a lot of elderly people.

I can however, see through your (yet unexplained) desire for Telecom to fall and see that you are arguing for competition, which is never a bad thing. This is where I will reiterate that TelstraClear have their own copper network in Wellington and Christchurch, and for the most part they are very competitive with Telecom when you take factors such as Broadband and/or TV into account. For the providers without their own tangible networks, there are companies (like WorldxChange) who provide an excellent VoIP service - there are other options out there apart from Telecom if consumers look for them. This brings me back to my point about simplicity - 99% of people really do just want things to work.

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#136820 9-Jun-2008 23:15

Telecom along with several other NZ companies have been outsourcing jobs for number of years now. Like I said before, NOT EVERYONE earns $700/week....elderly people only make ~$200/week....If you are generous enough to fund their telephone lines for $40/month + the cost of toll calls then I will take my words back....if you cannot then please stop being self centred and think about kiwis who only make about ~$200/week in wages (mainly elderly's who live on pension). Even thinking that Telecom will simply close down their busniess due to this is a joke. LLU did not close down Telecom, but every geek supported that because we wanted fast internet. In the same manner people will less $$$/week want cheap phone lines and calling.

"This brings me back to my point about simplicity - 99% of people really do just want things to work."

^ Well why don't you leave it to the public then to decide what they want. If they want simplicity, they will keep it and if they want to save $$$ and still have simplicity by putting a sim card in the voice box and start making calls then again it's their decision.

Do whatever you want to do man.

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#136822 9-Jun-2008 23:26

billgates: Telecom along with several other NZ companies have been outsourcing jobs for number of years now

I think you'll find that there is still a significant (almost certainly a majority) New Zealand presence of Telecom people in New Zealand. If you can prove otherwise, that may make for interesting reading.

LLU did not close down Telecom, but every geek supported that because we wanted fast internet

At the risk of being accused of 'moderator' one ups manship, I strongly disagree. LLU != fast internet.

LLU is simply a means for providers such as Orcon and Vodafone to provide service directly to customers without investing on technology (different connection medians such as fiber, wireless etc) that would REALLY improve internet speeds. Sure, they are doing ADSL2+, but if you look at Telecom wholesales website, its hardly a new concept as they've been rolling out DSL2+. Also keep in mind that they are using the same copper - so if you have a long copper run or poor line, you'll also suffer the same issue.

What makes it even more concerning is that at the time, ISP's such as Vodafone spoke out against cabinets - a move that would actually improve peoples internet.

So, that comes to my personal opinion that LLU is less about providing quality connections and more about increasing those profit margins for those who put dslams in telecoms exchanges. If you look at manhinlis recent blog article, you'll see that the LLU plans are not necessarily the cheapest there!

Anyway, this is really getting off topic.

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#136825 9-Jun-2008 23:40

cokemaster:
billgates: Telecom along with several other NZ companies have been outsourcing jobs for number of years now

I think you'll find that there is still a significant (almost certainly a majority) New Zealand presence of Telecom people in New Zealand. If you can prove otherwise, that may make for interesting reading.

LLU did not close down Telecom, but every geek supported that because we wanted fast internet

At the risk of being accused of 'moderator' one ups manship, I strongly disagree. LLU != fast internet.

LLU is simply a means for providers such as Orcon and Vodafone to provide service directly to customers without investing on technology (different connection medians such as fiber, wireless etc) that would REALLY improve internet speeds. Sure, they are doing ADSL2+, but if you look at Telecom wholesales website, its hardly a new concept as they've been rolling out DSL2+. Also keep in mind that they are using the same copper - so if you have a long copper run or poor line, you'll also suffer the same issue.

What makes it even more concerning is that at the time, ISP's such as Vodafone spoke out against cabinets - a move that would actually improve peoples internet.

So, that comes to my personal opinion that LLU is less about providing quality connections and more about increasing those profit margins for those who put dslams in telecoms exchanges. If you look at manhinlis recent blog article, you'll see that the LLU plans are not necessarily the cheapest there!

Anyway, this is really getting off topic.

I am not going to disagree with you and say that more jobs have been outsourced for people overseas and we have been left with nothing. I merely pointed out to the user who said that 8000 jobs are at risk because Vodafone is trying to cut Telecom and force them to close down. This is just not true.

As for the LLU plan being so expensive still? Well the wholesale prices are set by Telecom so how can we blame Vodafone and Orcon for it? Vodafone and Orcon both plan to introduce VDSL2 through their gear and initially provide the services to busniess. How is that not fast internet? 50Mb Down and 50Mb UP. Sure that VDSL2 does not have a greater reach but the potential is there in VF and Orcon's gear and they are going to use it unlike Telecom who had to be forced by the government to open up to other players in the market. Telecom was in no mood to increase the download speed from 2Mb to 3.5Mb and the upload from 128k to 512k. It was government and other Telco's pressure which helped.

Do whatever you want to do man.

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