Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.




94 posts

Master Geek


# 43998 23-Oct-2009 15:22
Send private message

At up to $200,000 per charge and who knows how many charges (up to 400?) this could be an expensive exercise for the world's largest telco. Wouldn't want to be their legal counsel, marketers or PR boss ;-)

***

Media Release

Issued 23 October 2009/ no 41

Fair Trading Act charges laid against Vodafone

The Commerce Commission has laid charges against Vodafone for alleged breaches of the Fair Trading Act 1986 in relation to various broadband and mobile phone promotions.

The charges relate to various representations made by Vodafone regarding:

* the extent of the coverage of Vodafone’s wireless broadband network, made in Vodafone’s ‘broadband everywhere’ marketing campaign between October 2006 and April 2008; 
 
* the availability of a $10 free airtime credit for those customers who registered their details on Vodafone’s website between May 2007 and September 2008; 
 
* the cost of using the Vodafone Live mobile internet service between February 2007 and August 2008; 
 
* the cost of using Vodafone’s $1 per day casual data charge for Vodafone’s mobile internet service between July 2008 and November 2008; 
 
* the size of Vodafone’s mobile phone or 3G mobile phone network between September 2008 and February 2009; and 
 
* the price of a Sony Ericsson W200 mobile phone between July and August 2007.

There will be no further comment as the matter is now before the courts.



View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
 1 | 2
BDFL - Memuneh
64447 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator
Trusted
Geekzone
Lifetime subscriber

  # 266385 23-Oct-2009 15:30
Send private message

Vodafone's answer was:


Late yesterday, the Commerce Commission commenced proceedings against Vodafone for a number of claims stretching back to 2006.

We are surprised by this action. It appears to relate to six advertising campaigns, each of which we addressed when raised by our customers or by the Commission. We take these allegations seriously and have cooperated with the Commission throughout. We have never deliberately misled our customers.

"Vodafone has a strong track record for innovation in the New Zealand market. We have introduced new technologies, new pricing and opened up entirely new markets over the past 11 years. We have been first to market with offers like pre-pay, text messaging and mobile TV", says Mark Rushworth, Vodafone?s director of marketing.

"We strive to deliver great value and outcomes for customers. It has always been our practice to work with our customers to continually improve our processes and explanations around our offers.

"This legal action feels to us like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut."





18 posts

Geek


  # 266390 23-Oct-2009 15:39
Send private message

> We are surprised by this action. It appears to relate to six advertising campaigns, each of which we addressed when raised by our customers or by the Commission.

Right, would that look like a pattern of commercial behaivour then?

Do something misleading and deceptive, get told off and stop
Do something else misleading and deceptive, get told off and stop
Do something...

> We have never deliberately misled our customers

Putting to one side whether anyone believes that, the Fair Trading Act doesn't excuse misleading behaivour that isn't deliberate and Vodafone's marketing and legal team knows this

>We have been first to market with offers like pre-pay, text messaging
WTF has that got to do with charges for misleading and deceptive conduct?

>We strive to deliver great value and outcomes for customers.
Well there are plenty of people on this forum who would disagree with that, not to mention the Aucklanders I talk to every day

 
 
 
 


1937 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  # 266397 23-Oct-2009 16:10
Send private message

Roll on 2011 when the CC takes Vodafone to task over the misleading "I gave Vodafone $10 and all I got was $100s of dollars of calls and txts".

Anyone with this kind of usage pattern wouldn't be on a standard (not-so-)Supa Prepay plan so the suggestion that they are getting "$x00 worth of usage" is grossly misleading (and frankly stupid).

183 posts

Master Geek


  # 266470 23-Oct-2009 21:09
Send private message

ahmad: Roll on 2011 when the CC takes Vodafone to task over the misleading "I gave Vodafone $10 and all I got was $100s of dollars of calls and txts".



Anyone with this kind of usage pattern wouldn't be on a standard (not-so-)Supa Prepay plan so the suggestion that they are getting "$x00 worth of usage" is grossly misleading (and frankly stupid).



Didn't you apply the same logic to 2degrees' magic topup to compare it to telecom's and vodafone's offerings?


In the case of best mates the value of the usage is based on the average savings and as such should not be too difficult to defend in court if it ever got that far.

1937 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  # 266494 23-Oct-2009 22:43
Send private message

bjhoogs:
ahmad: Roll on 2011 when the CC takes Vodafone to task over the misleading "I gave Vodafone $10 and all I got was $100s of dollars of calls and txts".

Anyone with this kind of usage pattern wouldn't be on a standard (not-so-)Supa Prepay plan so the suggestion that they are getting "$x00 worth of usage" is grossly misleading (and frankly stupid).

Didn't you apply the same logic to 2degrees' magic topup to compare it to telecom's and vodafone's offerings?

In the case of best mates the value of the usage is based on the average savings and as such should not be too difficult to defend in court if it ever got that far.

The "same logic" was simply applied to compare usage on different plans on offer. If BestMates was being compared to 2 Degrees prepaid, then yes, it might be valid to compare the $6 charge to $x usage on 2 degree prepay.

But BestMates was never factored into the comparison (and this point was made) because the usage pattern is extreme and can't be easily accounted for.

If someone is really going to make 400 minutes of calls per month, then they sure as hell aren't going to be on standard prepay and paying 44-89c/min for these calls. They will either be on a plan (with VF or Telecom) or make use of 2 Degrees Magic.

There will of course still be a significant saving on the $6 BestMate plan but to suggest hundreds of dollars as the saving is as ludicrous as Vodafone's suggestion that the iPhone data bonus of 3Gb is worth "thousands of dollars".

1200 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  # 266502 24-Oct-2009 01:08
Send private message


Good Job +1




Tyler - Parnell Geek - iPhone 3G - Lenovo X301 - Kaseya - Great Western Steak House, these are some of my favourite things.

28210 posts

Uber Geek

Moderator
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Lifetime subscriber

  # 266508 24-Oct-2009 06:18
Send private message

Does anybody know the specifics of these claims?

What was wrong with the $10 free credit? Was this not being applied? What exactly where VF doing incorrectly when they advertised their $1 per day for data?


 
 
 
 


1937 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  # 266512 24-Oct-2009 08:05
Send private message

Disclaimer: I have no idea.

But with regards $1 per day, remember us geeks were unhappy at the assertion of "$1 per day of usage" that was implied when in fact it was "$1 for 10Mb and still excessive overage"?

At a guess that was the most likely issue?

22415 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 266558 24-Oct-2009 14:19
Send private message

No mention of their claims of extend 3g and 97% which as we know is clearly untrue.




Richard rich.ms

19282 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


# 266566 24-Oct-2009 14:58
Send private message

richms: No mention of their claims of extend 3g and 97% which as we know is clearly untrue.


Yes they are true as a matter of fact %97 of the population has access to the Vodafone 3G network

Many places around New Zealand have 3G only sites

John


22415 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 266568 24-Oct-2009 15:09
Send private message

IMO when they are comparing to telecom which does offer it in the cities, the big lack of mention that you will have gsm fall back all the time due to only providing the widely known to be inferior 2100 3g its bordering on deception by omission.

Yeah, they press releses have been carefully worded to not say that there is 900MHz 3g for 97% but thats the impression that any reasonable person would get from it IMO, which means disappointment when around the city you dont get 3g.




Richard rich.ms

28210 posts

Uber Geek

Moderator
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Lifetime subscriber

  # 266570 24-Oct-2009 15:17
Send private message

richms: IMO when they are comparing to telecom which does offer it in the cities, the big lack of mention that you will have gsm fall back all the time due to only providing the widely known to be inferior 2100 3g its bordering on deception by omission.

Yeah, they press releses have been carefully worded to not say that there is 900MHz 3g for 97% but thats the impression that any reasonable person would get from it IMO, which means disappointment when around the city you dont get 3g.


900 3G does not make up 97% of the population coverage.

I don't recall the exact figure but Vodafone's 2100 3G covers (from memory) somewhere around 65% of the total population. The remaining 32% of the population is covered by 900 3G.

I just don't agree with your argument that Vodafone doesn't have 97% 3G coverage because with the correct handset they do. Your statement could be turned the other way round and also be used to say that XT doesn't have 97% coverage either without a correct handset.

I think we're exceptionally lucky in NZ to have two nationwide 3G networks. That's not something that many other countries have.


4606 posts

Uber Geek


  # 266572 24-Oct-2009 15:31
Send private message

I agree, but I also think it's a pity it took this long to get this point. Still, at least it's there now.

22415 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 266577 24-Oct-2009 16:26
Send private message

sbiddle:
900 3G does not make up 97% of the population coverage.

I just don't agree with your argument that Vodafone doesn't have 97% 3G coverage because with the correct handset they do. Your statement could be turned the other way round and also be used to say that XT doesn't have 97% coverage either without a correct handset.

I think we're exceptionally lucky in NZ to have two nationwide 3G networks. That's not something that many other countries have.



At the time they announced extended 3g covering 97% the impression was that it was a nationwide service. It clearly is not when most shops and buildnigs around auckland have little 3g coverage. You can get all technical and say that they never promised it but the impression given by the announcements was otherwise.

When you can be standing in a large shop in newmarket and be only able to use GPRS, it is not covering where those people work.

With an extended 3g handset there are still many many locations that it drops back to GSM because of vodafones decision to only deploy 900MHz in areas that dont matter and to leave the higher density areas with their older inferior 2100MHz network.

You cant announce a new network that covers 97% when the new network only covers the remaining areas that did not have the old 2100MHz network and expect not to have complaints. And they are valid complaints IMO




Richard rich.ms

28210 posts

Uber Geek

Moderator
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Lifetime subscriber

  # 266583 24-Oct-2009 17:24
Send private message

richms:
With an extended 3g handset there are still many many locations that it drops back to GSM because of vodafones decision to only deploy 900MHz in areas that dont matter and to leave the higher density areas with their older inferior 2100MHz network.

You cant announce a new network that covers 97% when the new network only covers the remaining areas that did not have the old 2100MHz network and expect not to have complaints. And they are valid complaints IMO


Deploying 900 3G where there was 2100 at present is the most logical thing to do. Why duplicate things in the short term?

I also strongle disagree the 900 is in places that "don't matter" - the 900 network is delivering coverage to ~35% of the population and (again not a guaranteed accurate figure as I don't recall the exact numbers) approximately 60% of Vodafone's total geographic coverage.

Vodafone have hinted that they will be deploying 900 3G into the cities in the future and there are all sorts of challenges to overcome, in particular spectrum resources when there are still people using handsets and devices that will be using GSM for many years to come.

 1 | 2
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter and LinkedIn »



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

The Warehouse chooses Elasticsearch service
Posted 18-Sep-2019 13:55


Voyager upgrades core network to 100Gbit
Posted 18-Sep-2019 13:52


Streaming service Acorn TV launches in New Zealand with selection with British shows
Posted 18-Sep-2019 08:55


Bitcoin.com announces partnership with smartphone manufacturer HTC
Posted 16-Sep-2019 21:30


Finalists Announced for Microsoft NZ Partner Awards
Posted 16-Sep-2019 19:37


OPPO Showcases New CameraX Capabilities at Google Developer Days China 2019
Posted 15-Sep-2019 12:42


New Zealand PC Market returns to growth
Posted 15-Sep-2019 12:24


Home sensor charity director speaks about the preventable death which drives her to push for healthy homes
Posted 11-Sep-2019 08:46


Te ao Maori Minecraft world set to inspire Kiwi students
Posted 11-Sep-2019 08:43


Research reveals The Power of Games in New Zealand
Posted 11-Sep-2019 08:40


Ring Door View Cam now available in New Zealand
Posted 11-Sep-2019 08:38


Vodafone NZ to create X Squad
Posted 10-Sep-2019 10:25


Huawei nova 5T to be available 20th September
Posted 5-Sep-2019 11:55


Kogan.com launches prepay challenger brand Kogan Mobile in New Zealand
Posted 3-Sep-2019 11:42


Pagan Online available now
Posted 27-Aug-2019 20:22



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.