[WXC/VFX] Continual dropouts in the evenings

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SumnerBoy

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#58026 4-Mar-2010 21:24

Hi,

I have been a WxC customer for at least a year now and I continually notice dropouts in the evenings. I work from home on the PC and never have a problem during the day - I have barely ever seen a dropout in the last 12 months - maybe 3-4 times in total.

However in the evenings I get dropouts almost every single night - especially from around 8pm - 9pm. Does anyone else notice this? I am in Christchurch BTW.

I used to think it was something to do with my wireless router - since my work PC is connected directly to my WRT54GL (running Tomato) which is wired to a 1320 ADSL modem. In the evenings I tend to use my laptop in the living room - connecting wirelessly.

I tried buying some bigger wireless antenna to improve my wireless reception. However it doesn't seem to be anything to do with the wireless link - I can always connect to my home server from the laptop and when the internet on the laptop goes down, my BitTorrent client on my home server (which is wired directly to the router) also loses connection.

Is this just a factor of high usage? Is there anything I can do to improve things? It is very frustrating as I most of my non-work browsing in the evenings.

Any tips or suggestions will be warmly welcome!

Regards,
Ben

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#304735 5-Mar-2010 12:44

Just looking at your account and logs it shows plenty of PPP disconnections - with the reason being ; user request.

Obviously you aren't purposefully disconnecting. It could however be the settings on your modem, some type of idle time-out on the RTA1320. It could also be the RTA1320 overheating and dropping the connection.

Doing a test shows your noise margin at 27 dB on your upstream - quite high. with a reasonable 11.9 on your downstream. Do you have any noise on your line? I'd advise have a look at the cable running from your modem to your jack point and any filters (all your phones etc should be filtered).

If you're still having trouble after the above give us a call on 0800 14 9638 :)

ParameterValue (U)Value (D)

lqd.parameter.actual.bitrate16614688

lqd.parameter.attenuation8.920

lqd.parameter.noise.margin27.911.9

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Niel

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#304739 5-Mar-2010 12:57

The RTA1320 is a good modem when it works, but as Cameronn says it can drop out when overheating. My first one would hold the Ethernet for 5 minutes from cold and then start dropping packets (network side, not ADSL side). My second one worked well except once a week I had to restart it to clear it's memory and avoid unexpected lock-ups.

8-9 PM would be peak time when there is more crosstalk from neighbours and you need a better noise margin to maintain the connection.

Check your cables and phone line wiring first (open wall sockets if you have to) and get it fixed if the copper wires are green. Can also be a faulty line filter.

If you want to replace your modem, the Linsys modems seem to be rock solid and only slightly slower performance than Dynalink.

You can never have enough Volvos!

SumnerBoy

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#304744 5-Mar-2010 13:01

Hi Cameron,

Below is the status page from my 1320 - which agrees with the values you mentioned. I only have a single phone, plus Sky, and a multi-function printer/scanner/fax - all of which have ADSL filters.

The ADSL cable runs from my jack point to a Belkin surge protection device - which has ports for ADSL protection - and onto the RS1320. I can't imagine surge protector is introducing any extra noise? Is it worth trying things without that extra link in the chain?

Is there any way to check a filter is faulty?

Niel - thanks for your thoughts - which Linksys modems are you referring to. I would be more than happy to shell out a few extra bucks for a better quality/more reliable modem.

Cheers guys!

Line Mode ADSL2+ Line State Show Time
Line Power State L0 Line Up Time 00:03:51:56
Line Coding Trellis On Line Up Count 1
Statistics Downstream Upstream
Line Rate 14688 Kbps 166 Kbps
Attainable Line Rate 18472 Kbps 663 Kbps
Noise Margin 11.9 dB 27.8 dB
Line Attenuation 20.0 dB 8.6 dB
Output Power 19.0 dBm 12.0 dBm
MSGC (number of bytes in overhead channel message) 57 14
B (number of bytes in Mux Data Frame) 78 1
M (number of Mux Data Frames in FEC Data Frame) 1 16
T (Mux Data Frames over sync bytes) 6 9
R (number of check bytes in FEC Data Frame) 14 16
S (ratio of FEC over PMD Data Frame length) 0.1717 5.8182
L (number of bits in PMD Data Frame) 4332 66
D (interleave depth) 160 8
Delay 6 11
Super Frames 857405 857403
Super Frame Errors 3 10
RS Words 324099150 3643962
RS Correctable Errors 8476 1965
RS Uncorrectable Errors 29 0
HEC Errors 2 3194
OCD Errors 0 0
LCD Errors 0 0
Total Cells 482068531 3119959658
Data Cells 8019508 1473123574
Bit Errors 0 84178139
Total ES 3 0
Total SES 0 0
Total UAS 32 0

Cameronn

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#304749 5-Mar-2010 13:12

SumnerBoy:
The ADSL cable runs from my jack point to a Belkin surge protection device - which has ports for ADSL protection - and onto the RS1320. I can't imagine surge protector is introducing any extra noise? Is it worth trying things without that extra link in the chain?

I would try advise trying it without the surge protector device (testing = good) - just check your noise margins after the change. This will show you what if any difference the change makes.

Best way to locate a faulty filter is to take them out of the equation one by one . Each time checking your ADSL stats on the modem. Note make sure you restart the ADSL modem after removing each filter. Your noise margin should be around 11-14dB mark.

You could also test the modem in another jack point, sometimes they can be faulty. If you still have the same noise margin issues after removing everything that's plugged in and trying another jack, it's more likely to be a line fault or a sick modem.

sultanoswing

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#304767 5-Mar-2010 14:11

My RTA1320 was dropping connections requently, same as Niel's, until I replaced its capacitors...and the Dreytek has been rock solid since I've had it about 6 months. I wonder if in the evenings you're placing more load on the 1320, hence the overheats and disconnects.

If you've got a WRT54GL, and you're thinking of replacing the modem, I'd HIGHLY recommend getting a Draytek Vigor 120 (or 110, if you find one second hand). Bit expensive at $140 (http://nicegear.co.nz/routers/draytek-dv120-adsl-modemrouter-with-bridge/), but you could save some dosh by getting one in Aussie and having it sent over - at about $70 AUD.

These bad boys will do PPPoA to PPPoE passthrough - avoiding the problems of half-bridging and double-NAT....MUCH cleaner solution than any other modem available and a perfect pairup to the WRT54GL.

Niel

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#304825 5-Mar-2010 15:47

Any Linksys modem should do, but I've used the AG310 and AM300. The AG310 for almost 2 years, the AM300 about a year. I believe the AG310 is no longer available though.

Surge protectors are useless. All products already have surge immunity built in, it is a requirement for approvals. I've found those phone line surge protectors stuff up noise margin, because they are primarily intended for voice lines and not the high frequencies used in ADSL.

On the side, surge protection for mains is also useless because the gap built into switches, sockets, switch boards, etc. is designed to flash over at about 2kV to 4kV, which is lower than the voltage at which all products are tested before it may be sold in NZ. Think of the pins on a light socket as a spark gap. What damages products and what occurs lots more is brownouts (dips), not surges. Think of how often you've seen incandescent light bulbs briefly dim, never go bright.

The way ADSL2+ works (specifically the "+") is the modem and exchange continuously negotiates the lowest power level to maintain a good line. When more people are on-line you get more noise from neighbouring phone lines so the modem and exchange negotiates a higher power level to overcome the noise. That is why I'm suggesting (assuming you are on ADSL2+) that at night when there are more neighbours on-line your modem drives more power and is more prone to overheating. Especially now when the night temperature is not much lower than the day temperature. For the record, ADSL (and ADSL2, without "+") does not negotiate lower power levels and simply transmits at full power all the time, requiring better quality cabling to the exchange.

You can never have enough Volvos!

SumnerBoy

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#304884 5-Mar-2010 19:18

Cameronn: I would try advise trying it without the surge protector device (testing = good) - just check your noise margins after the change. This will show you what if any difference the change makes.

Best way to locate a faulty filter is to take them out of the equation one by one . Each time checking your ADSL stats on the modem. Note make sure you restart the ADSL modem after removing each filter. Your noise margin should be around 11-14dB mark.

You could also test the modem in another jack point, sometimes they can be faulty. If you still have the same noise margin issues after removing everything that's plugged in and trying another jack, it's more likely to be a line fault or a sick modem.

Ok - I have spent the last hour trying all sorts of different things;

1. Removed the surge protector
2. Tried a different cable from jack to modem
3. Tried a different ADSL filter
4. Tried a different jack

None of these made any difference to the noise margin.

I did however notice something when I started removing ADSL filters and phones from around the house. With my phone and fax plugged in (via ADSL filters) the upstream noise margin was about 27dB. If I unplugged one it went up to 31dB, and if I unplugged both of them it went up to 41dB!!

Either way I am unable to get anything less than 27dB for my upstream noise margin.

I opened up the jack and couldn't see anything untoward in there - no copper was exposed or looked green.

What are my options now? Is there some sort of wiring test I can get done to check the line from the street to my house is ok? Is there any point getting a different modem, is that likely to help or am I hamstrung by the physical copper?

I really appreciate your prompt and helpful replies.

Ben

Niel

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#305020 6-Mar-2010 14:32

Ah, we are mixing up terminology. http://www.ubasics.com/ADSL_Noise_Margin_and_Attenuation_Numbers

Here is a sample of what I get on an AM300 modem, similar to what my RTA1320 did:

Downstream Rate:
9214 Kbps
Upstream Rate:
933 Kbps
Downstream Margin:
12 db
Upstream Margin:
11 db
Downstream Line Attenuation:
36
Upstream Line Attenuation:
17

EDIT: Sorry, trigger happy me. I see now the issue is that the down and the up is so different. Suspect either the modem or the port at the exchange.

You can never have enough Volvos!

SumnerBoy

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#305251 7-Mar-2010 19:24

Is there any way I can work out which it is? Modem or exchange? Without buying a new modem...

sultanoswing

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#305261 7-Mar-2010 20:40

SumnerBoy: Is there any way I can work out which it is? Modem or exchange? Without buying a new modem...

Borrow a modem from a friend for an afternoon?

Niel

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#305291 8-Mar-2010 06:05

I've got a working RTA1320 you can have for $20, no longer needed. It runs about 10 days to 2 weeks before the firmware crash (runs out of memory). Works fine if once a week you reboot it. Send me an e-mail.

You can never have enough Volvos!

SumnerBoy

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#305419 8-Mar-2010 14:51

Thanks for the offer Niel - but I am thinking I would prefer to upgrade my modem (to the Draytek Vigor 120) if my current 1320 is faulty.

I just need to determine if it is indeed the modem - I don't want to spend $140 on the Draytek only to have the same issues.

Do I need to contact WxC or Telecom to test my line? What is the procedure here?

sultanoswing

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#305427 8-Mar-2010 15:26

Good call on the draytek. It's a nice bit o' kit.

As an FYI, when you enter your PPPoE details into the router, DON'T enter a service name, or it won't work (took two days of frustration before I found this out). After that - flawless victory.

coffeebaron

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#305428 8-Mar-2010 15:27

You contact WxC, and they will log fault with Chorus. What area do you live?

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SumnerBoy

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#305434 8-Mar-2010 15:38

Sumner, Christchurch.

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