vodafone caller id failure

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mindoka

62 posts

Master Geek

#71276 8-Nov-2010 01:42

trying to find if someone else suffers from this issue...

in the past days i've received calls from finland (100% repeatable) which display a caller ID from CHINA.

the operator originating the calls has been informed; and are looking the problem too. but it's likely some sort of sick voip-glue on the transit path of the calls (a tinfoil hat would say something about particular chinese network equipment manufacturer and misconfiguration on the call interception... but i wont go there now. does anyone know if vodafone would have installed hardware from said vendor recently?) and could as well affect some other trunks from europe.

on each call it's slightly different number, and if i answer the call there's long delay.

=)

johnr

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#401525 8-Nov-2010 07:42

This is not related to the Vodafone NZ network. Vodafone NZ presents the CLI that is passed to the network.

John

mindoka

62 posts

Master Geek

#401595 8-Nov-2010 11:01

johnr: This is not related to the Vodafone NZ network. Vodafone NZ presents the CLI that is passed to the network.

John

pardon?

yes it is. vodafone nz buys/arranges call transit from foreign networks to customers on vodafone nz network. calls arent just dropping from the thin air to their destination. calls are routed in somewhat similar logic than IP (often it is on IP in the modern world) from operator to operator; this routing is always arranged and not random as you seem to think(?). and as a vodafone nz customer i would expect vodafone nz to care when their business partners are faulting delivering the calls in a way which affects the paying customer.

until the nature of this fault is identified and understood it's possible the fault is even on equipment directly (physically, or logically) connected to vodafone nz [1]. in that case it would be (commercially) best interests of vodafone nz to inform their business partner of such incident.

in any case instead of brushing it off like you did it certainly should be in best commercial interests of vodafone nz to also get to the bottom of this.

as i stated, the error has been reported to the call originating operator, and they took the incident very seriously even though it neither relies on their direct network. but if the fault is not just between the originator i observed it's possible it wont get fully fixed by them reporting it alone.

[1] highly unlikely yet not absolutely impossible.

(i've worked overseas on cell operator which was an order of magnitude,
or several, bigger than voda nz, designing the network; not just being a
helpdesk monkey... so i know rather well what's under the hood)

coffeebaron

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#401630 8-Nov-2010 12:17

If the CID is not correct when it hits the Vodafone network, then there is not much they can do. The responsibility lies with the originating caller network and the path they choose to use to route the call to VFNZ.

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mindoka

62 posts

Master Geek

#401683 8-Nov-2010 13:57

coffeebaron: If the CID is not correct when it hits the Vodafone network, then there is not much they can do. The responsibility lies with the originating caller network and the path they choose to use to route the call to VFNZ.

which is why the originator is looking into it, as i clearly have stated (third time). however it would not necessary solve possible other trunks failing with CID towards voda nz from same transit path (quite unlikely this affects only calls to me). which is why "not much they can do" equals at least but not limited to "informing their partner calls coming through with a broken CID". i'm fairly sure that's part [2] of the thick pile of papers both parties signed when establishing the call exchange.

also i would expect voda nz to get curious [1] about the incident in case they route any calls to EU through same network. it might break CID the other way too...

it's clearly so not "nothing we can do" or "we dont care" incident. or, at minimum, should not be. except, maybe in nz it is...

anyway. i only sought to find out if someone else here has seen the same issue. i possibly should conclude "no".

[1] naturally, not here on this forum; equally naturally the voda person replying me initially with disinterest did not represent his employers opinion - at all.

[2] that being: 1) dont break CID; 2) inform of errors; 3) fix errors; and so on.

johnr

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#401686 8-Nov-2010 14:01

How other international networks route calls to the Vodafone NZ network is beyond Vodafone NZ control

Many carriers use LCR instead of premium links.

John

nate

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#401749 8-Nov-2010 16:55

mindoka - I would appreciate you tone down your replies. Both repliers have answered you to the best of their knowledge, and some courtesy goes a long way here.

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#401762 8-Nov-2010 17:13

mindoka: also i would expect voda nz to get curious [1] about the incident

Yep. At least to make it clear the issue is with their network partners or not.

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muppet

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#401768 8-Nov-2010 17:19

Silly Translation:

Xtra buys/arranges IP transit from foreign networks to customers on Xtra's DSL network. Packets arent just dropping from the thin air to their destination. Packet are routed in a somewhat very similar logic than IP (often it is on IP in the modern world) from operator to operator; this routing is always arranged and not random as you seem to think(?). and as a Xtra DSL customer i would expect Xtra to care when Facebook are faulting delivering the packets in a way which affects the paying customer.

My point is, you don't ring your ISP because Facebook happens to have fallen over. Or if you DO there's not much they can do about it.

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mindoka

62 posts

Master Geek

#401829 8-Nov-2010 20:07

drifting dangerously off topic...

muppet: Silly Translation:

My point is, you don't ring your ISP because Facebook happens to have fallen over. Or if you DO there's not much they can do about it.

yes, a silly translation.

in the IP transit carrier world operators exchange information about malformed sites or routing errors "often". been there, done that - too.

translating the CID error to plain IP world would equal closer an indent of me going to facebook and getting pages back with stating they are from sheepbook instead. or possibly maybe rather, your dad emails you and server on the path (let's assume you can not read full headers to determine where to complain directly for similarity's sake) translates his email address from "dad@yourfamily" to "dfgh@mnbhv".

on the latter, surely YOU would call your isp instantly; wouldnt you?

i'm sorry in general if i've offended someone anyway with my tone (?). this error just raises some serious concerns (not in just my mind, also with my colleagues at work today; average geek might get curious as well...) about the integrity of the call-path; by far most likely it's just CID error on PSTN-to-VoIP or VoIP-to-PSTN handover point along the path, but it could be something else as well; not to mention it could cause dropped calls and i did mention the quality of the call in general was lot worse than normally [1]... in any case it's not something i'd plainly shrug off... btw, when judging my "tone" i'd note i'm a "foreigner", not native in english. i think i need to point this out on my profile...

=)

i also was initially just curious if someone else has experienced this (ever). not necessary after a lengthy discussion about call routing and who's fault is what.

[1] say, all we all know vodafone might have started to buy call transit from new partner which causes the breakage i observed. they might wish to commercially re-evaluate the partnership if it causes problems; they might even have SLA agreements which translates into cash money for voda when calls are failing (unlikely). yes?

muppet

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#401863 8-Nov-2010 21:07

mindoka:
i'm sorry in general if i've offended someone anyway with my tone (?)

If you're curious why people said this, writing things like "Pardon?" *reads* like "what the fsck are you talking about?"

When something clearly isn't the carriers fault (and it doesn't get much clearer than this one), I agree with you it's the right thing to do to step in and see if they can help. As an IP Network Admin, I'd do the same if Facebook suddenly starting blackholing traffic from my net blocks. But I'd still (rightly) maintain it wasn't actually *my* problem, because it's not.

Lots of customers of course won't (and don't want to) understand this so will loudly complain anyway. Don't be that customer :)

Audiophiles are such twits! They buy such pointless stuff: Gold plated cables, $2000 power cords. Idiots.

OOOHHHH HYPERFIBRE!

Ham

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#401892 8-Nov-2010 22:46

Have you tried getting the person overseas to call you on a Telecom phone? Does it do the same thing?

Are they using a calling card?

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coffeebaron

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#401909 9-Nov-2010 06:22

There are a lot of VoIP providers out their that will route calls through the cheapest carrier they can find. I receive phone calls from a friend through one of those carriers; sometimes I get a China CID, sometimes a NZ CID, sometimes 0000, or private. It all depends on where the call is routed on its way to VFNZ.
And yes, the quality is often rather poor!

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Blindspot

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#401984 9-Nov-2010 10:15

Vodafone NZ have premium outbound international links.

Caller ID is not gaurenteed on any of NZ's incoming or outgoing links.. in any case if we did want this Vodafone would have to pay extra for it and even there it's not 100% (premium links change carriers also).

mindoka, comparing NZ to any other ovearseas operator is a little silly IMO. In European countries (or any larger continent) this is something that is easily negotiated/mandated with carriers like Belgicom who is a major player/

As johnr points out many incoming calls to NZ are routed over least cost routing, this may be several different carriers some supporting this feature and others not.

I am a Vodafone employee, however all comments/opinions expressed are my own. i.e. I do not represent Vodafone.

mindoka

62 posts

Master Geek

#402030 9-Nov-2010 11:36

coffeebaron: There are a lot of VoIP providers out their that will route calls through the cheapest carrier they can find. I receive phone calls from a friend through one of those carriers; sometimes I get a China CID, sometimes a NZ CID, sometimes 0000, or private. It all depends on where the call is routed on its way to VFNZ.
And yes, the quality is often rather poor!

you're right; and i did give my dad a 3rd degree on the call how did he make the call to me initially; i was sure he started to use skype or similar glue. he's not using calling cards, skype or any other dodgy provider. he's using the same operator he's used for years. this issue only started last week. and they are looking into this already... my dad also initially was wondering why i didnt answer his calls for two days.

against my normal engineering mind, i did not attempt to call back to my dad to figure out if it's 2 way failure.

and i dont have a xt phone so i could have compared; however i have other family members in FI i could ask to make comparison calls from other originating networks. and am in the "process" of finding out if SMS flows through at all. indications at the moment (based more on hunch as i have not received SMS from my mom in over a week which is somewhat abnormal; incidentally, my mom is on another network in FI. network which is physically even different. elisa vs. sonera for those familiar/interested about networks.)

i thought i also made it clear i'm not as much complaining and pointing fingers (at all) but rather finding the behavior curious and more. even a bit disturbing. and would not think i can be only one affected as i dont recall having planned to overturn chinese government in recent weeks... on any call, that is.

:D

mindoka

62 posts

Master Geek

#402369 9-Nov-2010 21:45

"unfortunately" this fixed itself... so i couldnt experiment.

daeng.