New Cellsite (Vodafone I think) Botany Town Centre

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nzpilot1181

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#75385 17-Jan-2011 22:01

Hi All

Just wondering if anyone can confirm whether the new cell site being erected at the back of Dick Smith's Botany Town Centre on Chapel Road is Voda 2100MHz. Pole has been installed since Xmas and panels finally starting to appear.

Cheers

Sorry no images yet

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#428238 17-Jan-2011 22:11

I can check but not right now as I am in bed :oP

If you can get close up to the site and see the WBTS this will have the carriers name on it

John

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BarTender

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#428706 19-Jan-2011 09:23

nzpilot1181: Hi All

Just wondering if anyone can confirm whether the new cell site being erected at the back of Dick Smith's Botany Town Centre on Chapel Road is Voda 2100MHz. Pole has been installed since Xmas and panels finally starting to appear.

Cheers

Sorry no images yet

Might be 2Degrees.

      <name>CORNER TI RAKAU DRIVE AND BOTANY ROAD BOTANY DOWNS PARADICE</name>
      <location>41632</location>

      <name>OUTSIDE 104 BOTANY ROAD BOTANY EAST (AKL-008-066-I)</name>
      <location>41649</location>

      <name>OUTSIDE 739 CHAPEL ROAD, SHAMROCK PARK BOTANY (AKL-008-075-B</name>
      <location>41650</location>

      <name>6 BOTANY ROAD HOWICK (AKL-008-029-D)</name>
      <location>41499</location>

Or Vodafone:

      <name>BOTANY DOWNS</name>
      <location>26973</location>

Look up the Location ID's in the RSM Database.

I'm planning to update my KML's when I get back from holiday as per the link below in my sig pointing to my blog.

mrgsm021

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#428721 19-Jan-2011 10:08

I walked past the cell site couple of weeks ago and I am surprised its another Vodafone one as there is another Vodafone 2100 site right in front of my house - I am on the Te Irirangi side of Botany Town Centre.

I would have thought the site in front of my house would have sufficient coverage for the area, or maybe the new site will add capacity or fill in blackspots.

SteveON

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#428726 19-Jan-2011 10:12

Maybe I don't understand enough about all the Mhz and stuff, butt, why don't these large companies start to use lower frequencies? I understand that higher frequencies are better for highly dense populations, but nowhere in NZ do we have a high enough concentration to justify this. Plus the lower frequencies provide far greater penetration in buildings.

For example how I cannot get 3G from VF/2D in a club in the a basement (not Base Bar... ew...) in the wellington CBD but my friends on XT can...

Dtwo

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#429518 21-Jan-2011 13:15

I believe its something to do with international standards. Like using lower frequencies would do something like make phones NZ specific and all phones would need to be specifically made for NZ.

Like how Japan has the 1700Mhz spectrum for cellphones. Because of this, their cellphones can't be used anywhere else in the world.

NzBeagle

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#429525 21-Jan-2011 13:34

Dtwo: I believe its something to do with international standards. Like using lower frequencies would do something like make phones NZ specific and all phones would need to be specifically made for NZ.

Like how Japan has the 1700Mhz spectrum for cellphones. Because of this, their cellphones can't be used anywhere else in the world.

900Mhz is common in Europe is it not? And Vodafone have this frequency, and they use it to deliver 3G. And likewise with 850Mhz, utilised in the US and Australia?

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#429689 21-Jan-2011 22:05

SteveON: Maybe I don't understand enough about all the Mhz and stuff, butt, why don't these large companies start to use lower frequencies? I understand that higher frequencies are better for highly dense populations, but nowhere in NZ do we have a high enough concentration to justify this. Plus the lower frequencies provide far greater penetration in buildings.

For example how I cannot get 3G from VF/2D in a club in the a basement (not Base Bar... ew...) in the wellington CBD but my friends on XT can...

Two words.. Cellsite placement (or is that three words?).

Low frequencies (850/900) travel greater distances, and have better building penetration. Higher frequencies (2100Mhz) have a larger bandwidth and can normally be used for faster broadband speeds, but have the downside of far worse building penetration and shorter line of sight distances. For example I had a XT Mobile call in Waimarama using the TukiTuki Cellsite which is ~12 1/2 KM away over WCDMA 850. There would be no chance of that on 2100Mhz.

Both Telecom and Vodafone (and 2Degrees) run their in-fill network on 2100 in the cities and larger towns, this allows to reduce congestion on the network by handing off handsets onto the higher frequencies if the signal strength is higher. Vodafone also run their 3G network exclusively on 2100 in the metro areas. And run "3G Extended" on 900Mhz outside the metro's due to them being able to give up some frequency range from 2G just for 3G in the less populated areas, whereas in a large city they couldn't do it since then they would have issues where older cellphones which aren't 3G would get cellsite congestion or so I believe. Telecom don't have that problem since they run a pure 3G network at 850Mhz. Now that EVDO is shutdown they have some more space, and when CDMA is fully shutdown they will have a lot more frequency capacity.

If the Cellsite for the bar you want to go for is closer, or has a better line into the bar then you will get coverage. Radio waves like light don't really turn around corners. And can bounce off things like walls.

Check out my KML links... should show you why you do or don't get coverage depending on which carrier you are with.

johnr

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#429710 21-Jan-2011 23:13

Dtwo: Like how Japan has the 1700Mhz spectrum for cellphones. Because of this, their cellphones can't be used anywhere else in the world.?

This is incorrect Japan uses WCDMA 2100mhz as well

John

richms

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#429982 22-Jan-2011 19:51

BarTender:
And run "3G Extended" on 900Mhz outside the metro's due to them being able to give up some frequency range from 2G just for 3G in the less populated areas, whereas in a large city they couldn't do it since then they would have issues where older cellphones which aren't 3G would get cellsite congestion or so I believe. Telecom don't have that problem since they run a pure 3G network at 850Mhz. Now that EVDO is shutdown they have some more space, and when CDMA is fully shutdown they will have a lot more frequency capacity.

Perhaps if VF and 2 degress were not still selling obsoleted GSM only handsets they could start to take spectrum back from the old networks. Some of the phones that 2degrees sell are specifically designed for the third world (sorry, "developing markets").

Richard rich.ms

quickymart

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#429985 22-Jan-2011 20:00

GSM still provides far better coverage than 3G, from my experience.

richms

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#430002 22-Jan-2011 20:26

quickymart: GSM still provides far better coverage than 3G, from my experience.

Because of the choise of band, which is a problem with a lot of 900MHz is being wasted on GSM that could be pushed up to 1800 since it is less important.

Richard rich.ms

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#430013 22-Jan-2011 20:50

richms: Perhaps if VF and 2 degress were not still selling obsoleted GSM only handsets they could start to take spectrum back from the old networks. Some of the phones that 2degrees sell are specifically designed for the third world (sorry, "developing markets").

Perhaps if there were phone subsidies and locked phones then none of the players would need to sell cheap phones or still run GSM. 2Degress were very wise to run GSM IMHO. That way the move from Vodafone (a very sigificant prepaid market when 2Deg first launched) could switch by only changing a sim thanks to number portability. Kids still want cheap phones since the break them all the time. So the Sub $100 (or sub $50) phones are here to stay for at least the next few years I believe.

richms:
quickymart: GSM still provides far better coverage than 3G, from my experience.

Because of the choise of band, which is a problem with a lot of 900MHz is being wasted on GSM that could be pushed up to 1800 since it is less important.

Agreed with Richms here... XT coverage which is 3G only is excellent nationwide IMHO. As is the Vodafone 3G Extended coverage I found with Vodafone while staying in Waimarama last week. I had better coverage (ie all bars, better call quality and no dropped calls) on a Nokia C3-01 phone (from 2Degrees) when running 3G Extended, but only 1-2 bars on GSM when I switched to GSM Only. This was from the same cellsite, so I could only assume it was because of the newer 3G extended equipment in use. Also unsurpsiringly I had the same experience with my Postpaid Vodafone sim, and my mother in laws 2Degrees sim in the same phone. Or perhaps Vodafone have stacked a larger bandwidth into WCDMA 3G Extended and reduced the frequency range for 2G GSM, but somehow I doubt that.

Vodafone also couldn't switch off GSM 900 all together, much as the same reason why 3G on 2100 is bad, GSM on 1800 has a similar issue.

quickymart

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#430056 22-Jan-2011 23:14

I disagree, I have found parts where XT has no signal and GSM is a strong signal, but having said that, it works the other way too (XT better than GSM). It's a little too much of a generalisation to say "XT coverage nationwide is excellent" in my opinion - anecdotally I know of a lot of people who had a good signal on CDMA who now have little or nothing on XT, unless you've travelled the length and breadth of the country and compared both (which you may have - I don't know) :)

richms

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#430062 22-Jan-2011 23:35

You see, I dont care about the length and bredth of the country, I care about places that I go to, and the XT 3g network is vastly superior to vodafones one, and quite a bit better than 2 degrees one in those places, Even food alley on albert street in the center of auckland is a blackspot for vodafone. 2 degrees works but is down to 1 bar and falling back to edge since I cant turn that off with this stupid android handset.

If somewhere in the whops has great GSM, and no VF 3g than that would be unusual since outside of civilization vodafones 900MHz extended network is as good as XT. Comparing 2 different telcos with 2 different locations for their cellsites is not a good comparison of the technologies or the bands used, as they are from different places.

Richard rich.ms

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#430071 22-Jan-2011 23:58

Same as me, I only care about the places I go to (mostly on the Coast), and there is zero XT coverage there, but perfect Vodafone (900MHz) reception, both in the same spot.

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