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Topic # 7763 8-May-2006 12:31
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i saw reading the business magazine thingy that came with the nz herald today. It said in the unbundling document that the government is looking at cellphone operators too. It said we are near the bottom of the OECD for mobile phone costs or sumthing and its worse than the broadband problem. SO maybe we will be getting cheap mobile calls soon.termination rates are pretty high. I mean in the usa, uk u get very very cheap txt messages, way for free minutes,cheap call costs etc.roaming charges on vodafone are pretty high too.I wonder if vodafone is still going to release its cuz they said it'll only be 1Mbps which is pretyy slow. I'm wonder if they'll release it with 14.4 Mbps cuz woosh said they're going have that on their wireless network.

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  Reply # 35181 8-May-2006 12:51
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kelly vodafone NZ has already been partly regulated by the NZ goverment about 2 years ago,

That is what econet wireless is taking advantage of to build there new 3GSM Network in NZ,

and the speeds that will be done off vodafone NZs 3G network we will just have to wait and see

and please don't use SMS language in your posts



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  Reply # 35184 8-May-2006 13:01
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. I'm wonder if they'll release it with 14.4 Mbps cuz woosh said they're going have that on their wireless network.


I would assume this will happen when HSPA Class 10 is ratified and the hardware is available. They're up to Class 8 now, although the equipment is yet to be made commercialy available . No doubt VFNZ will offer this sometime down the track.

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  Reply # 35185 8-May-2006 13:06
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kelly2626: i saw reading the business magazine thingy that came with the nz herald today. It said in the unbundling document that the government is looking at cellphone operators too. It said we are near the bottom of the OECD for mobile phone costs or sumthing and its worse than the broadband problem. SO maybe we will be getting cheap mobile calls soon.termination rates are pretty high. I mean in the usa, uk u get very very cheap txt messages, way for free minutes,cheap call costs etc.roaming charges on vodafone are pretty high too.I wonder if vodafone is still going to release its cuz they said it'll only be 1Mbps which is pretyy slow. I'm wonder if they'll release it with 14.4 Mbps cuz woosh said they're going have that on their wireless network.


Well, what's happened in NZ is that both Telecom and Vodafone charge customers a lot compared to just about any other country. NZers txt because voice calls are shockingly expensive. SMS is also very expensive here though at 19 cents per message, although you can get bulk deals if you pay in advance.

The ComCom said earlier it wants to chop the wholesale per-minute rates that Vodafone and Telecom charge each other to 15c from 27c, but the latest document isn't really clear on what the plan is now. Vodafone and Telecom offered to drop the rate with 1cpm a year until 2012 instead. Neither telco intends to pass on the lowered wholesale rates to customers, and Vodafone's already saying it intends to scale back investment or raise prices (or both) to recoup the lost revenue.

If you're talking about Vodafone's HSDPA, it's a bit faster than that - 1.8Mbit/s for the inital rollout, 3.6Mbit/s later. The 14.4Mbit/s figure is the theoretical maximum of the service and unless I'm mistaken, it's not possible to reach it under anything but ideal laboratory conditions.

Woosh has only just come out with a 1Mbit/s upgrade. I'm trying to get my connection to hit that, but need to work out where to point the bleedin' aerial again as I'm getting only around 300kbit/s now.




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  Reply # 35187 8-May-2006 13:23
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Hi kelly2626, I am not sure where to begin on this one...

SO maybe we will be getting cheap mobile calls soon.

We have some good deals now. Freedom, prepaid rates on both networks are not too bad, and various promos on both networks offering extra topups and minutes etc. Rates have been naturally falling ever since we have had mobile in NZ.

termination rates are pretty high.

Telecom and Vodafone have both stated that MTR regulation will not lower mobile call pricing to the consumer. Especially with the introduction of LLU and regulated access to networks (Econet), you would expect operators to seek to recoup lost revenue somewhere (these are after all, commercial operations with an obligation to make money for the people who own them.) They are not charities.

I mean in the usa, uk u get very very cheap txt messages,

McSqueeze me? Last I heard, NZ was one of the cheapest countries for text messaging. Is free texting 8 days out of 30, or $10 for 1000 texts considered expensive? I think not.

way for free minutes,cheap call costs etc.roaming charges on vodafone are pretty high too.

Yes, roaming is expensive, and in a way, im glad, because high roaming charges are a good incentive for developers of VoIP software and WiFi based devices to expand their product range, and easily compete in that segment. Which countries do you roam to, and what are the costs when you go there?

I wonder if vodafone is still going to release its cuz they said it'll only be 1Mbps which is pretyy slow.

Release what? Further upgrades to their network? Of course they will. A quick read through these forums confirms the paths that both our existing mobile network providers have the option (and the willingness) of travelling down. 1Mbps is pretty good considering 2 years ago we were all averaging 1/10 of that over mobile. Thats faster growth than Moores law. Well done to Vodafone and Telecom for the achievements both have made in the mobile data space in this country. To the best of my knowledge, by the time you discount the 'haters and wreckers' and the zealots/fanatics, peer review of either networks data capabilitys would be quite favourable.

I'm wonder if they'll release it with 14.4 Mbps cuz woosh said they're going have that on their wireless network.

Woosh currently offer 1Mbps, and appear to be overdelivering (perhaps uncapping their speed). They too will require investment in their chosen technology to travel down an upgrade path. We will all have 10Gigabit or more over mobile one day in the future. Telecom might be the first provider to do so. Does that mean everyone should switch to Telecom now? Nope, you should look at your current needs, and factor in pending technology upgrades and hardware & implementation costs as well as your future needs. (ie, do i want UMTS or EVDO now, and will i want to pay for new hardware in 2 years time for HSDPA or EVDO revX). Rest assured that ANY player in the mobile data market is either planning a technology path that will eventually exceed 14.4Mbps, or they are simply pouring investors money down the drain.

Also,
Please refrain from using spelling like 'cuz' 'sumthing' and 'u' (and others). Its sms language which is specifically disallowed by the site administrator. The reason for this, is that it is intensely annoying to read. We do allow industry specific and common English abbreviations for brevity - like txt or pxt or UMTS, or ComCom, TUANZ, VFNZ, TNZ, pm (private message), GZ (geekzone), MCE ('Media Center Edition'), Dr (doctor), MTR (Mobile Termination Rate), TG (Theresa Gattung) etc etc.




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  Reply # 35267 9-May-2006 11:50
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well did you read the new zealand herald today guys?The government is saying there is lots of things wrong with the mobile phone sector in new zealand. Look at the story from the new zealand herald here;



http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/story.cfm?c_id=93&objectid=10380878

Here are some of the failures of vodafone and telecom's mobile services in the article:

* New entrants' inability to use other operators' networks.

* Operators' failure to share cell sites.

* The failure of resellers of the incumbent's networks to emerge.

In many other markets such developments are commonplace.


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  Reply # 35268 9-May-2006 12:19
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if telecom gets resource consent for a cell site, and buys or leases the land from say, a farmer, after negotitations etc - why should another operator reap the benefit of all that hard work?

Id be pretty unhappy if got resource consent for a milking shed (hi F5), and spent all that time and effort and money on buying land, building sheds, installing equipment, all to give myself an edge over the competition in that area, only to have the govt say "gee... your competitor doesnt want to go through all that, so we will force you to share the stuff you paid for, and worked hard for".

Just doesnt seem right to me...




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  Reply # 35269 9-May-2006 12:27
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tonyhughes: if telecom gets resource consent for a cell site, and buys or leases the land from say, a farmer, after negotitations etc - why should another operator reap the benefit of all that hard work?

Id be pretty unhappy if got resource consent for a milking shed (hi F5), and spent all that time and effort and money on buying land, building sheds, installing equipment, all to give myself an edge over the competition in that area, only to have the govt say "gee... your competitor doesnt want to go through all that, so we will force you to share the stuff you paid for, and worked hard for".

Just doesnt seem right to me...


True.

But also, what happens when the community decides they don't want to allow you to build another shed close to or next to yours, because it's ugly or destructive to the environment, but still wants competition?

Does this mean you should always be the only one to have access, because you got it early or under a different regime?

Imagine if people said you can't access the Skytower anymore for radio comms because someone else has rented the space first; but you can't access any other site in Auckland either because of the RMA or other blockers?

It's a tricky old game, but I think what we have seen is incumbency brings inertia, and no real drive to change.

Having said that though - forcing them to open the keys to the shed without any compensation is a lot like compulsory seizure to me - "we're taking your land even though you paid us for it in the past, and changing the rules. BTW no money either". Sounds like Farm Reclamation in ZImbabawe....

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  Reply # 35270 9-May-2006 12:27
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tonyhughes: if telecom gets resource consent for a cell site, and buys or leases the land from say, a farmer, after negotitations etc - why should another operator reap the benefit of all that hard work?

Id be pretty unhappy if got resource consent for a milking shed (hi F5), and spent all that time and effort and money on buying land, building sheds, installing equipment, all to give myself an edge over the competition in that area, only to have the govt say "gee... your competitor doesnt want to go through all that, so we will force you to share the stuff you paid for, and worked hard for".

Just doesnt seem right to me...


But in the real world things aren't black and white...

First, colocation isn't ever going to be free. Competing operators will have to pay commercial rates to stick their gear into the cellular sites.

Second, there's the issue of resource duplication: cell sites are pretty ugly, so having more of them than necessary isn't a good idea. Also, if you have lots of cell sites beaming signals nearby one another, you may end up with all sorts of interference.

Third and most importantly... the public good. If colocation brings on network competition and pushes prices down for NZers, well, it's a no-brainer really.






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  Reply # 35319 9-May-2006 21:16
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hi

Seriously are you not allowed to use abbreviated words as mentioned by kelly?
That is seriously padantic, and to find it that annoying to read is one persons opinion and also have to be really geeky, i know its geekzone but this place is not full of geeks i would not believe, so to complain about that is pretty petty guys, give people a break, txt will become part of the english language well before you walk with sticks, and i have a good mate who is really bad at spelling, dyslexia is not uncommon and can affect people in many and  bad ways, not saying people who abbreviate words in here are dyslexic, but i have a mate who has to ask how to spell 3 and 4 letter words and he's 21, yet he is very intelligent. Would you hold it against him if he came on here spelling "you" as "u" etc. Yes you probably would, and when you found out if you did that its not his fault and its a common condition, you guys probably still wouldnt give sympathy to him. I know this is unrelated and its down to the admins decision, but this is my "one persons" opinion

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  Reply # 35321 9-May-2006 21:40
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Plain English is the common denominator of language here. Its a private forum, and the administration of this site sets the rules. The status quo is plain English, 99%+ of our members seem to prefer it, so thats the way it is.

I have seen to many forums go down the tubes with txt speak, flaming, general idiocy and links to illegal content. That wont happen here.

Would you tell a university that failing your paper for containing text speak is pedantic? I doubt it. Its their rules, and you live by them. Same goes here. We are all intelligent people, and we dont discriminate against people with Dyslexia or anything else (who are also intelligent people), but we do have standards that apply to all postings here.

Dont try and tell me who I would and would not give sympathy to. I have people in my family with learning disabilities (including Dyslexia). We dont moderate people for spelling mistakes (we all make them), but we do moderate people for using deliberate spelling shortcuts, which is the biggest issue here.

Id bet that over 99% of the instances of 'u' instead you 'you' on Geekzone, are text speak, and not learning disabilities.

There are plenty of forums that dont have as strict language rules, and modern technology means that posts can be run through say, MS Word and spellchecked before being pasted in here.

Thankyou
Come again




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  Reply # 35322 9-May-2006 21:41
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*sigh* if he can't spell 3 or 4 letter words, then how could he come on here and read 3, 4 or more letter words to be able to comment? No disrespect to your mate of course.

It's not petty, it's the rules and rules are made for a reason. I can't stand reading 'TXT' speak and I can bet it won't become a part of formal written English at any stage. My take on this website is that it is a forum for those amongst us that want to have some intellectual discussion about things that 'geeks' enjoy discussing. TXT language is for the school playground.

Back on topic - I have to agree with TonyHughes on this one. I too would be pretty hacked off if I were forced to open my milkshed up for the benefit of those whom haven't contributed to its establishment. Which is why, in the face of Telecom's HUGE market share, I have the utmost respect for the Woosh's and TelstraClear's (cable) of the country for putting in the hard yards themselves to build competing networks.

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  Reply # 35332 9-May-2006 22:23
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What is needed in this country are MVNOs (mobile virtual network operators)...

Basically, they "rent" part of Vodafone's or Telecom's network, using all their infrastructure, but provide their own services. 

Mobile has similar analogies to broadband.  While the idea of UBS, ISPs piggy-backing on telecom's network might have failed to encourage competition and cheaper faster broadband, our mobile networks in NZ are different. 

We have 2 operators.  Both Vodafone and telecom would want to encourage MVNOs, and attract MVNOs to their own "camp", since they will earn revenue as well.  AND, competition would be stimulated, not only directly between MVNOs and the 2 telcos, but also between the 2 telcos themselves, to offer a best rate to MVNOs to attract them to startup with them.

Perhaps a good example of MVNO would be www.easymobile.com  It offers a no frills mobile service (no shops, all online, you just receive a SIM in the mail), and it comes with cheap rates.  If we have just have 2 MVNOs operating in NZ in addition to the 2 telcos, it will defintely encourage competition and bring prices down, without affecting investment or business prospects for telecom or vodafone.


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  Reply # 35339 9-May-2006 22:51
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hi blahmc

you said is pretty stupid, do you not know of the many different forms of dyslexia. people can read fine with no hassles but may not be able to spell, people could spell and not read, people could write and not...... etc there is so many. and tony hughes, when i say you people, it doesnt mean you as one person, its just generally speaking, you people wouldnt give sympathy, you would probably laugh and think hes a loser because hes not a geek. and that you guys are perfect. And i said in my last post that i understand its the admins decision, so dont go on about it, just tell me something i dont know. im not trying to be an [expletive deleted by moderator] about it. in a short and sweet way of putting it i just found it petty thats all. but who cares this isnt my forum,website, or world and as i said its just my opinion, doesnt mean it has to wind you up enough to leave feedback, which you most likely will do again, but seriously just leave it, just accept my opinion as it is, and i accept yours, nothing more needs to be said. have a good day/night week.

cheers


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  Reply # 35341 9-May-2006 22:57
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.

Would you tell a university that failing your paper for containing text speak is pedantic? I doubt it. Its their rules, and you live by them. Same goes here. We are all intelligent people, and we dont discriminate against people with Dyslexia or anything else (who are also intelligent people), but we do have standards that apply to all postings here.



Just a reminder without trying to wind you up that a forum of a website is not helping me achieve my goals towards a career where as uni is, there wouldnt be anyone who would use "txt" text  in papers just yet, lets just wait untill it becomes part of the english language.

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Reply # 35342 9-May-2006 22:58
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mazdawill: ... i understand its the admins decision, so dont go on about it, just tell me something i dont know. im not trying to be an arsehole about it. in a short and sweet way of putting it i just found it petty thats all. but who cares this isnt my forum,website, or world and as i said its just my opinion...
I've decided on this simple rule because SMS SPK is not English and it will not be adopted.

A language requires a formal set of rules, known as grammar. It also requires words to follow a standard spelling, so to prevent misunderstandings.

Since we can't convey emotions (hence emoticons) and other features of the oral language when writing it is best to have it clearly in writing.

And this is off topic, so better stop this sideline discussion here.





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