Will we see 5G widely rolled out before 6G arrives?

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#2947509 28-Jul-2022 17:29

PolicyGuy:
richms:

Vodafone still have 2g, last I tried it, still worked for voice calls.

It's still needed for 'smart' electricity meters.
I don't know how long the contract between VF and the electricity companies runs, but the VF 2G network must have quite a few years life left in it yet.

Maybe it'll be replaced by some IoT protocol?
Possibly the one being promoted by Swarm Technologies, now owned by SpaceX

And rural data loggers, Millions of iot devices will need to be replaced to shut down 2G

T-Mobile is in the same boat in the IS

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nztim

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#2947511 28-Jul-2022 17:32

Linux: The issue with turning off 3G is inbound roaming customers! Until VoLTE roaming is done on a large scale it would be a silly move

Think thats why T-Mobile in the US still has a GSM network

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ajw

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#2947514 28-Jul-2022 17:37

nztim:
Linux: The issue with turning off 3G is inbound roaming customers! Until VoLTE roaming is done on a large scale it would be a silly move

Think thats why T-Mobile in the US still has a GSM network

As of July 1, 2022, T-Mobile’s older 3G UMTS network will be retired

https://www.t-mobile.com/support/coverage/t-mobile-network-evolution

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#2947515 28-Jul-2022 17:38

nztim:
Linux:
Do you really need 5G? I did a 4G speedtest the other day on 2degrees and got around 180Mbp/s down?

You must have next to no mobile phones in your area

@nztim Auckland CBD I locked the handset to 3G / 4G just to try it

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#2947522 28-Jul-2022 18:09

nztim:
Linux: The issue with turning off 3G is inbound roaming customers! Until VoLTE roaming is done on a large scale it would be a silly move

Think thats why T-Mobile in the US still has a GSM network

Not referring to 3G referring to GSM

https://www.commsupdate.com/articles/2021/09/17/t-mobile-us-to-shut-down-3g-network-on-1-july-2022/

Its the only way to make roaming calls in the US without VoLTE roaming becoming a thing

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deadlyllama

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#2947534 28-Jul-2022 18:58

Geektastic: Given that many places in New Zealand have yet to come within 4G coverage and 5G is rarer than hen’s teeth still, I was wondering if 6G might be a thing elsewhere before we even see full 4G.

It's been a real eye opener switching from Skinny/Spark to Kogan/Vodafone six months ago. Went from 4G basically everywhere to a heck of a lot of dropping back to 3G/HSPA! In suburban Wellington no less!

Even the 2degrees SIM in my second slot is frequently on 4G when VF is on 3G...

stick

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#2947553 28-Jul-2022 20:05

PolicyGuy:
It's still needed for 'smart' electricity meters.
I don't know how long the contract between VF and the electricity companies runs, but the VF 2G network must have quite a few years life left in it yet.

My Vector smart meter recently got upgraded to Spark 4G in urban Whanganui but yeah I can imagine that it's still needed in some areas

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KiwiSurfer

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#2948110 29-Jul-2022 22:34

Geektastic: Given that many places in New Zealand have yet to come within 4G coverage and 5G is rarer than hen’s teeth still, I was wondering if 6G might be a thing elsewhere before we even see full 4G.

I'm fairy surprised at the assertion that 'many' places lack 4G coverage. There's a growing list of places where there is no legacy 2G/3G but 4G is available (e.g. RCG sites as well as several more recently built sites around the country). I honestly rarely see 3G on any network in my travels -- all three networks have rolled out extensive 700/900 MHz coverage for LTE. Granted it might not be everywhere yet but still fairly extensive.

When my phone eventually falls back to 3G the signal is often so weak anyway it's not worth using. When 2degrees refarmed their 900 MHz from 2G/3G to 3G/4G I was amazed to find many places I was finally able to use data on LTE 900 where it was next to impossible on GSM/UMTS 900 -- from the same tower using the same device. To be honest LTE is a godsend -- it works even in really poor signal conditions where UMTS/GSM would show a connection but no usable data transmissions whatsoever.

deadlyllama:

It's been a real eye opener switching from Skinny/Spark to Kogan/Vodafone six months ago. Went from 4G basically everywhere to a heck of a lot of dropping back to 3G/HSPA! In suburban Wellington no less!

Even the 2degrees SIM in my second slot is frequently on 4G when VF is on 3G...

That's possibly why some people perceive 4G coverage as not being sufficient. I've noticed different behavior on the Vodafone networks in different regions and with different devices. In Auckland I observe that I'm on 4G pretty much >99% of the time using my Vodafone SIM. But a visit to Christchurch I was fairly surprised to see it frequently dropping back to 3G even in places I know the 4G service is fine. I also find my S21 is much more likely to stay on 4G whereas my cheapo Xiaomi will fall back to 3G or even 2G in the most unexpected places (including standing right next to a Vodafone tower). For some reason Spark/2degrees doesn't seem to exhibit the same behavior variations. YMMV.

...

Anyway going back to topic. With the early days of 3G at 2100 MHz only people wondered if it would ever be widely rolled out. For some years 3G 2100 MHz was basically just in the cities with 2G 900 MHz in rural areas. We now have 3G to >97% of the population largely due to the introduction of the 850/900 bands. Ditto for the early days of 4G 1800 MHz but today we have 4G 700/9000 MHz to easily over 90% (as a conservative estimate but probably much more than that) and growing steadily. In both cases the first couple of years was slow going and more focused on high band (2100 MHz for 3G and 1800 MHz for 4G) but once deployment starting happening in lower bands (e.g. 900 MHz or 3G and 700/900) things started to take off fairly quickly.

One interesting feature of 5G deployment overseas I've noticed is Dynamic Spectrum Sharing allowing operators to e.g. operate both 4G and 5G across the same frequency. I am aware of overseas operators doing this for low bands like 700/850/900. I wonder if this is what NZ operators will do for 5G deployment in rural areas.

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#2948342 30-Jul-2022 15:11

I see 3G on my phone frequently if I’m on the road.

I’ve seen 5G about twice!

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#2948440 30-Jul-2022 18:35

KiwiSurfer:

I'm fairy surprised at the assertion that 'many' places lack 4G coverage. There's a growing list of places where there is no legacy 2G/3G but 4G is available (e.g. RCG sites as well as several more recently built sites around the country). I honestly rarely see 3G on any network in my travels -- all three networks have rolled out extensive 700/900 MHz coverage for LTE. Granted it might not be everywhere yet but still fairly extensive.

Have you ever visited Southland? Head 20 or 30 minutes out of Invercargill on any road apart from State Highway 1 and you'll end up with poor performing 3G.

The irony is Vodafone has 5G active in town. While no investment has been made yet on rural sites, they do serve a significant percentage of the regions population and are nearing capacity.

nztim

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#2949559 2-Aug-2022 09:08

Linux:
nztim: You must have next to no mobile phones in your area

@nztim Auckland CBD I locked the handset to 3G / 4G just to try it

@linux I doubted it so had to try for myself, 4G in middle of Wellington CBD at 9am - happy to be proven wrong :)

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boosacnoodle

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#2949617 2-Aug-2022 09:35

ajw:

Surprised that no NZ operator has announced when they are going to shut down 3G as all mobile operators in the US will not connect non VOLTE phones. All phones should be all VOLTE capable as most RCG cellsites are 4G only.

Announcement is coming next month from one of the three carriers. They will be following what's happening in AU. That is to say you've got another 2 years or so, then a hard stop. Discussions are already happening around it.

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#2949717 2-Aug-2022 13:49

boosacnoodle:

Announcement is coming next month from one of the three carriers. They will be following what's happening in AU. That is to say you've got another 2 years or so, then a hard stop. Discussions are already happening around it.

Any news on VoLTE roaming?

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old3eyes

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#2949721 2-Aug-2022 13:58

boosacnoodle:

ajw:

Surprised that no NZ operator has announced when they are going to shut down 3G as all mobile operators in the US will not connect non VOLTE phones. All phones should be all VOLTE capable as most RCG cellsites are 4G only.

Announcement is coming next month from one of the three carriers. They will be following what's happening in AU. That is to say you've got another 2 years or so, then a hard stop. Discussions are already happening around it.

I guess all those old phones in our cars as backup spares will be junked and will have to go and buy some more burners that do VoLTE. Already found on one of them in Tauranga end of last year when I powered up an old Nokia flip phone up it was in a 4G only area and wouldn't log in to the network. Moved down the road a couple of Km and it was fine. I guess technology moves on.

Regards,

Old3eyes

ajw

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#2949725 2-Aug-2022 14:01

boosacnoodle:

ajw:

Surprised that no NZ operator has announced when they are going to shut down 3G as all mobile operators in the US will not connect non VOLTE phones. All phones should be all VOLTE capable as most RCG cellsites are 4G only.

Announcement is coming next month from one of the three carriers. They will be following what's happening in AU. That is to say you've got another 2 years or so, then a hard stop. Discussions are already happening around it.

Surprised it has taken so long.

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