Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.




17 posts

Geek


# 242245 17-Oct-2018 13:55
Send private message

I have a question about SIMs for RBI: I'm out in the wops a lot with no phone coverage. If I buy a phone with Band28, will a standard VF SIM access RBI towers, or do I need a special SIM?

 

I'm told VF controls who accesses RBI towers for load balance management, so fixed-location RBI customers technically only pay for access to the tower their antenna points to (carrier aggregation aside), and urban users cannot get access to RBI at all.

 

I'm a WirelessNation customer, and assume I pay a premium for the privelidge of being able to swan around the country with my B525 router, accessing every tower I come across. W/N tell me the SIM in the B525 is locked to work only with my specific router and no other.

 

So all SIMs are not created equal, which to me leaves open the question of whether phone users get access to RBI towers or not? VF help desk's response to the question ("I don't see why not...") was vague and unconvincing.

 

Thoughts, anyone?


Create new topic
4205 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2109756 17-Oct-2018 13:58
One person supports this post
Send private message

My understanding (from our wholesaler that we buy RBI from), the SIM is locked only to the router. The router is not locked to a tower/area. I don't believe the towers are specifically "RBI towers", they still support normal handset access.


'That VDSL Cat'
11020 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Spark
Subscriber

  # 2109760 17-Oct-2018 13:59
Send private message

The SIM may be locked to that device, this is common for almost all LTE based providers.

 

There are a few VF Resellers who allow BYOD, thus no restriction on device the sim can go into.

 

 

 

Last i checked, VF don't have any bands dedicated to wireless so mobile devices can use them.





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


 
 
 
 




17 posts

Geek


  # 2110090 17-Oct-2018 22:14
Send private message

Thanks guys, seems I didn't pose my question clearly enough....but let me answer chevo first. A Chorus engineer advised me that RBI/ISPs have to pay for each RBI tower (by "towers" I mean the RBI transponders on towers which usually offer other mobile services) they offer their service through.

 

I had been asking why some RBI/ISPs offer cheaper services than WirelessNation, and the reply was because WN have contracted to pay for bandwidth/service through every RBI tower in the country, whereas a small town ISP offering RBI over a limited area may only need to pay for their use of 2 or 3 towers. So no, routers are not locked to towers, but their antenna(s) had better be pointing to one of the specific tower(s) their RBI/ISP and specific SIM is enabling.

 

Thanks Hio77 - your comments seem to be close to my question, but I don't understand

 

"Last i checked, VF don't have any bands dedicated to wireless so mobile devices can use them."

 

Let me rephrase my question: If I put a standard VF SIM into a Band28-capable phone, and go way out in the wops where there is no other coverage, will that SIM permit use of band28 RBI as a 4G phone service, or is RBI restricted to only those routers with RBI/ISP specific SIMs?

 

Or is a 4G-band28-capable phone not necessarily an RBI device, or lack the hardware to be one? Or is a special SIM required to permit 4G RBI access for a normal 4G-band28 phone?

 

Mighty grateful for any help :D


'That VDSL Cat'
11020 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Spark
Subscriber

  # 2110095 17-Oct-2018 22:25
Send private message

If a RBI site is owned by another entity, sure there would be some sort of an agreement.

 

 

 

There are providers who operate LTE networks that aren't the big 3. These are few and far between though.

 

Most are Wifi based service.

 

 

 

Wireless Nation are one of the networks that do operate in CBD over LTE, Quite high frequency though. 

 

B28 spectrum is very limited, to my knowledge none of the wireless operators have any of this space.

 

 

 

to directly answer your question for B28 on mobiles, none of the providers limit this spectrum. It's the king at the moment for Rural LTE Coverage.

 

I'm sitting here with access to both B28 on Spark and VF.

 

 





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.




17 posts

Geek


  # 2110695 18-Oct-2018 21:44
Send private message

Thanks again Hio77 - that confirms what I suspected, altho I doubt Spark has a service on band28.  The documents I've seen suggest VF, who won the RBI contract, purchased the entire band for RBI in Oct 2013, deployed the first 4G services on 700 MHz in July 2014, and have been expanding it since then. I can't see any spare space on 700 for Spark.

 

Regardless, I'm still not sure if we're on exactly the same page - are you 100% sure that if you were way out on the Desert Road somewhere, with no other coverage than RBI, your phone would happily take and make calls, and exchange data?

 

Would you mind popping out there to check? :D ....just kidding....


'That VDSL Cat'
11020 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Spark
Subscriber

  # 2110701 18-Oct-2018 21:54
Send private message

tanihera:

 

Thanks again Hio77 - that confirms what I suspected, altho I doubt Spark has a service on band28.  The documents I've seen suggest VF, who won the RBI contract, purchased the entire band for RBI in Oct 2013, deployed the first 4G services on 700 MHz in July 2014, and have been expanding it since then. I can't see any spare space on 700 for Spark.

 

Regardless, I'm still not sure if we're on exactly the same page - are you 100% sure that if you were way out on the Desert Road somewhere, with no other coverage than RBI, your phone would happily take and make calls, and exchange data?

 

Would you mind popping out there to check? :D ....just kidding....

 

 

I'd argue spark have a much larger rollout of B28.. based on experience not statistics.

 

 

 

 

Based on spectrum, Spark have plenty more. and they make full use of that!

 

There are very few LTE towers that do not have 700 at a minimum. 

 

 

 

 

 

Document on the 700mhz auction: https://www.rsm.govt.nz/projects-auctions/pdf-and-documents-library/recently-completed-projects/digital-switchover-and-the-digital-dividend/700-mhz-auction/700-mhz-auction-notice-of-results

 

 





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.




17 posts

Geek


  # 2110928 19-Oct-2018 12:23
Send private message

Sweet! - thanks Hio77, for putting me right on that!  I think the documents I read a few years ago now) predates yours, and I prob should have checked the registration database too.

 

If you ever can definitely test whether or not RBI is a service that phones can also use, pls let me know either way. Cheers!


 
 
 
 


83 posts

Master Geek


  # 2120270 5-Nov-2018 14:49
2 people support this post
Send private message

I *suspect* you're thinking about this the wrong way around.

 

RBI is a marketing name for a specific series of plans and initiatives run over various networks, including 4G. It's not a technology, network, or spectrum on its own.

 

It's not so much your phone using the 'RBI network' as parts of the RBI service being delivered via the phone network.




17 posts

Geek


  # 2121153 6-Nov-2018 21:14
Send private message

Thanks SS - my question was about band 28 more than the structure of RBI.

 

Specifically, I'd had a conversation with a Chorus engineer from which I understood that band 28 bandwidth is precious and access to it is managed to minimise tower overloading with consequent loss of RBI speed.

 

So I wondered, is 4G on band 28 so precious that it is restricted to RBI customers only?  And if so, is that achieved by special SIMs that enable band 28 in RBI routers only, that phone users don't get?

 

Or, does everyone with a 4G band28 phone get the advantage of the extended coverage with a standard VF SIM?


'That VDSL Cat'
11020 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Spark
Subscriber

  # 2121169 6-Nov-2018 21:55
Send private message

Everyone has access to it.

The chorus fella is spreading a few misstruths.
B28 is major for rbi, this also comes into play for the likes of black spot towers.

B28 is the smallest option bandwidth wise right now.
Other bands are layered on top to increase capacity.

To take Vodafone as the example. They call B28 "4g extended"


It's not uncommon for vf to upgrade a ruralish tower with just b28 for mobile Lte coverage.




#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


'That VDSL Cat'
11020 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Spark
Subscriber

  # 2121174 6-Nov-2018 22:06
Send private message

If you look at the table above. Spark have 20mhz to play with (its fdd remember)

Vf have 15mhz
2d have 10mhz

At an assumption of 2x2 64qam that equates to
At 10mhz peak of 75/25
At 15mhz peak of 112/37
At 20mhz peak of 150/50
Those numbers change a bit depending on deviceand network support (eg do you have downstream 256qam or upstream 64qam or mimo configurations)

I can't really speak for what all the networks do overall or individually on a single tower.

There could be a constraint that means they cant do full bandwidth mimo etc..

As a end user you would wanna snatch up that bandwidth when you want. If there are a ton of b315s camping on b28 running a home that could run out fast.

That's where all the overlaying helps.

Is also assuming best case... What's to say that there isn't a cell edge customer pegging out at 16qam. That's where the real strain comes from not a mobile that uses a few gb a month!




#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


83 posts

Master Geek


  # 2121599 7-Nov-2018 14:52
One person supports this post
Send private message

I've seen B28 on a VF phone with just a prepay SIM. Was well out in the wops though.


'That VDSL Cat'
11020 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Spark
Subscriber

  # 2121624 7-Nov-2018 15:32
Send private message

SomeoneSomewhere:

 

I've seen B28 on a VF phone with just a prepay SIM. Was well out in the wops though.

 

 

my vf sim is camping on B28 right now, it's around places.

 

 

 

I'm siting in spark building :)





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.




17 posts

Geek


# 2121809 7-Nov-2018 21:32
Send private message

Many thanks guys....that's exactly what I need to know.

 

Certainly the Kaiaua tower (west side of the Firth of Thames) was recently upgraded with B28 enabling us on the west Coromandel Peninsula across the Firth who can't see the Orere Point or Te Puru towers to get an RBI signal for the first time.  Now I can look for a B28 phone for better coverage at home too - I didn't want to buy one only to find it was locked out somehow.

 

To be fair, the Chorus guy was doing his best in a conversation mostly about why we would never get fibre.

 

Super - I can't thank y'all enough.... 


Create new topic



Twitter and LinkedIn »



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Microsoft New Zealand Partner Awards results
Posted 18-Oct-2019 10:18


Logitech introduces new Made for Google keyboard and mouse devices
Posted 16-Oct-2019 13:36


MATTR launches to accelerate decentralised identity
Posted 16-Oct-2019 10:28


Vodafone X-Squad powers up for customers
Posted 16-Oct-2019 08:15


D Link ANZ launches EXO Smart Mesh Wi Fi Routers with McAfee protection
Posted 15-Oct-2019 11:31


Major Japanese retailer partners with smart New Zealand technology IMAGR
Posted 14-Oct-2019 10:29


Ola pioneers one-time passcode feature to fight rideshare fraud
Posted 14-Oct-2019 10:24


Spark Sport new home of NZC matches from 2020
Posted 10-Oct-2019 09:59


Meet Nola, Noel Leeming's new digital employee
Posted 4-Oct-2019 08:07


Registrations for Sprout Accelerator open for 2020 season
Posted 4-Oct-2019 08:02


Teletrac Navman welcomes AI tech leader Jens Meggers as new President
Posted 4-Oct-2019 07:41


Vodafone makes voice of 4G (VoLTE) official
Posted 4-Oct-2019 07:36


2degrees Reaches Milestone of 100,000 Broadband Customers
Posted 1-Oct-2019 09:17


Nokia 1 Plus available in New Zealand from 2nd October
Posted 30-Sep-2019 17:46


Ola integrates Apple Pay as payment method in New Zealand
Posted 25-Sep-2019 09:51



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.