PABX alternative

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Naylz

42 posts

Geek

#127394 8-Aug-2013 18:36

I am a newbie to voip.

We are just about to get Callplus UFF into our building and will have 100MBps download and 50MBps upload. We are entitled to 2 lines into the office.

We currently run a PBX using an LG Aria 24ip system.

We have 3 lines into the office and run an eftpos machine through one of the lines and a fax machine uses the same line.

We have need approximately 10 extensions.

I have been trying to read up about the Virtual PBX systems.

I would appreciate any advice on the best way to proceed from here on.

cheers
Naylin

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4962 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#874129 8-Aug-2013 19:35

My recommendation would be to get in contact with a few dealers that are local to you and get them to give you some options.
A hosted PABX may suit but sometimes these systems can be slightly restrictive in terms of what can be set up in the call flow and voicemail systems. You will also have to weigh up whether you think it is worth paying a monthly fee or just spend a few dollars up front and buy the system. Pretty much everyone will offer a lease option on PABX equipment too so that might be an option.
You will need to decide if you want to transition your lines to a VoIP service aswell or maintain them on the POTS network. I would suggest now you have the blazing connection move to a full VoIP service for voice.

We install Samsung and NEC PABXs down here in Palmy and find they are both very good systems. Both are appliance based systems that are full of awesome features. However, I am slightly swayed for towards the Samsung simply because we only have the dealership for the small NEC and don't have access to the big ones. We can spec a Samsung system for offices of 5 or 500 whereas the NEC SL1100 has a limit of something like 40-odd extensions.

In terms of Eftpos and fax.... Eftpos should be transitioned to using an IP connection rather than the dial-up. That is a super easy swap you can complete with your Eftpos machine provider.
Faxing is a bit of another story. From my experience I have found we have absolutely no problem getting fax machines to send faxes. We simply make it use a high quality codec and that seems to work every time. For recieving we set the customer up with Fax-to-email which does exactly what it sounds like.

For a Samsung system with 10 extensions, 10 digital phones, VoIP licensing, voicemail etc I would guess you would be looking at around $5k. If you PM some more precise details I could run your set up through our pricing configurator and give you a more exact price.

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DonGould

3892 posts

Uber Geek

#874286 8-Aug-2013 22:38

Do you actually need a new PABX solution?

What are the problems we're actually trying to fix here?

1. Fax. The fax is going to die. People are throwing them out as they're not interested in paying for phone lines just to keep a fax for one or two messages.

One of my customers didn't even realise they were still advertising a fax number that they didn't actually have in service. That's because they didn't send faxes and no one complained they didn't get them.

2. Put the eftpos on IP.

3. Put in an ATA to terminate your two VoIP services and connect that to your existing PABX. Will cost you less then $400 including installation.

That's the low budget answer.

1. Fax - plug it into an ATA and see if it goes. If it doesn't then get a cisco ATA from VFX and Mav will make it go or die in the process.... he's very much alive.

2. Eftpos - see 1.

3. Put in an Asterisk or Freeswitch box and a bunch of IP phones. IP phones are less than $200 dollars each for some fairly sweet kit. Software is free, you know what a PC costs and I'm sure we can find any number of folk here who will be happy to set it up for $1500 to $2000!

So your budget could be $3 to $4k or less.

Or you can look at learning this stuff and do more of it yourself if you have those skills, and many folk here have done just that with help from others here too.

hth

D

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Zeon

3912 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#874289 8-Aug-2013 22:53

Upgrade your EFTPOS to being IP based firstly. You could either go for a hosted private PBX (similar to a full system private to you) or an on site IP PBX system. The cloud based ones probably aren't quite at the level you would need.

These guys do private hosted PBX in a Flash systems based on Yealink phones in Auckland:
https://web-2u.co.nz/

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igorportugal

82 posts

Master Geek

Trusted

#874329 9-Aug-2013 08:03

We supply a PABX alternative and work with CallPlus VOIP offering - please contact me if you interested in more info.

CTO
Vadacom Limited

nzgman

111 posts

Master Geek

Trusted

#874345 9-Aug-2013 08:33

your LG-Aria 24ip will be able to take SIP lines. Talk to the company you use for maintaining it and get them to give you a quote to set it up for SIP. It could save you a lot of money and hassle.

Graham

www.offthehook.co.nz

Naylz

42 posts

Geek

#874394 9-Aug-2013 09:56

Thank you for all your replies.

The current system works well for what we need. The main reason for changing is because we get the 2 extra voip lines with Callplus included with our deal, and want to cancel our lines with telecom. (We do also have 10 DDI's which I didn't mention previously)

@nzgman We were told that the LG-Aria 24IP would not take Sip lines and that we would have to purchase a whole new system.

Our fax machine is a multifunction printer. We are about to get a new one that we lease from Fuji-Xerox. It does fax to email and email to fax really well.

Although I know nothing about VOIP, I am pretty computer literate. I installed and maintain our windows server 2012 environment and installed and maintain both a windows and a Linux plesk server in the office. So I am pretty confident I could learn this.

cheers
Naylin

nzgman

111 posts

Master Geek

Trusted

#874407 9-Aug-2013 10:18

Naylz: Thank you for all your replies.

The current system works well for what we need. The main reason for changing is because we get the 2 extra voip lines with Callplus included with our deal, and want to cancel our lines with telecom. (We do also have 10 DDI's which I didn't mention previously)

@nzgman We were told that the LG-Aria 24IP would not take Sip lines and that we would have to purchase a whole new system.

Our fax machine is a multifunction printer. We are about to get a new one that we lease from Fuji-Xerox. It does fax to email and email to fax really well.

Although I know nothing about VOIP, I am pretty computer literate. I installed and maintain our windows server 2012 environment and installed and maintain both a windows and a Linux plesk server in the office. So I am pretty confident I could learn this.

cheers
Naylin

They can take SIP lines unless the required card is no longer sold or there is no room in your system for the card.
Here is a thread on it on geekzone http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=43&topicid=36947

A new system might be a better option but just thought I would mention it as it could save some money for you company.

Graham

www.offthehook.co.nz

chevrolux

4962 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#874413 9-Aug-2013 10:31

You won't find any new cards for a 24ip any longer. They went obsolete a wee while ago.

If you are fairly confident and perhaps have a virtual host or spare machine available to you I would suggets having a look at FreePBX. Download their official distro and you get a really fully featured system based on Asterisk. Also by using the official distro you have access to their commercial modules which can let you do some pretty neat things if there is a requirement.

ubergeeknz

3344 posts

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Vocus

#874432 9-Aug-2013 10:37

chevrolux: You won't find any new cards for a 24ip any longer. They went obsolete a wee while ago.

If you are fairly confident and perhaps have a virtual host or spare machine available to you I would suggets having a look at FreePBX. Download their official distro and you get a really fully featured system based on Asterisk. Also by using the official distro you have access to their commercial modules which can let you do some pretty neat things if there is a requirement.

I just want to chip in with my 2c. Please don't set up your own IP PBX unless you understand how to secure it properly against toll fraud. It could end up costing a heck of a lot more than a professionally installed system would have.

Also keep in mind that while software based PBX work well, and are flexible, they are relatively complex and always going to involve more ongoing maintenance and work than a simple PBX which will do the job as well.

igorportugal

82 posts

Master Geek

Trusted

#874463 9-Aug-2013 11:28

The below, while sounds wise is not as simple as presented:

ubergeeknz:

I just want to chip in with my 2c. Please don't set up your own IP PBX unless you understand how to secure it properly against toll fraud. It could end up costing a heck of a lot more than a professionally installed system would have.

Agree 100%. Same goes for simple PBXs that lack security controls - majority of toll fraud is done by automated diallers hacking simple PBX systems that can not really be secured properly for the lack of controls.

ubergeeknz:
Also keep in mind that while software based PBX work well, and are flexible, they are relatively complex and always going to involve more ongoing maintenance and work than a simple PBX which will do the job as well.

This is not that simple. First, a simple PBX can cost you a lot of money, just like poorly configured software one. The advantage of a software system is that it can be properly secured from both network and dialler facing threats.

Also, there are many hidden costs in simple traditional PBX - for example, upgrades are more expensive, if you need new features you need to replace the whole system. On top of that you are missing out on savings, such as mobility features and ability to work from home, so saving on maintenance of the software PBX becomes false economy - you pay more in calls and having an inflexible business.

So, on balance, the on-going maintenance of the software PBX will pay for itself many times over, while implementing a hardware PBX makes you stuck in the past the minute you've implemented it.

My 2c worth...

CTO
Vadacom Limited

chevrolux

4962 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#874498 9-Aug-2013 12:01

So, on balance, the on-going maintenance of the software PBX will pay for itself many times over, while implementing a hardware PBX makes you stuck in the past the minute you've implemented it.

That is just simply not the case these days. An appliance based PABX is just as flexible as a software solution. Vendors are making money from selling cards any more so they are widely based on simply licensing a feature. Samsung PABXs we installed 3 or 4 years ago are now being upgraded to use SIP trunks with a simple (relatively cheap) license and software upgrade. The customer has zero down time and doesnt have to learn to use an entirely new system.

As for toll fraud... if a hardware based PABX gets hacked via insecure voicemails or DISAs it simply hasnt been implemented properly. There are many features built in that deal specifically with this kind of issue. Even on the network side of things we can secure the system with simple block/allow IP lists.

Edit: and as for flexibility... a well featured 'hardware' pabx can be just as flexible as a software solution. It is just incorrect to suggest otherwise.

nzgman

111 posts

Master Geek

Trusted

#874506 9-Aug-2013 12:15

igorportugal:

This is not that simple. First, a simple PBX can cost you a lot of money, just like poorly configured software one. The advantage of a software system is that it can be properly secured from both network and dialler facing threats.

Also, there are many hidden costs in simple traditional PBX - for example, upgrades are more expensive, if you need new features you need to replace the whole system. On top of that you are missing out on savings, such as mobility features and ability to work from home, so saving on maintenance of the software PBX becomes false economy - you pay more in calls and having an inflexible business.

So, on balance, the on-going maintenance of the software PBX will pay for itself many times over, while implementing a hardware PBX makes you stuck in the past the minute you've implemented it.

My 2c worth...

you are only stuck in the past if you buy a cheap PABX. ones like Avaya IP Office and other top brands allow you to upgrade the software and add new features with out having to replace any hardware. Avaya IP Office comes with mobile twinning as standard, has been able to use SIP lines since before they were even available in NZ, has heaps of features available and they are always adding new features.

Which any option you go with you just have to make sure you have support for it so you are not left in the cold if something goes wrong or you need to add more features, extensions, lines etc.

Read all the advice that you get on here and if your not planing on installing and maintaining something yourself then seek out some good local companies to come and give you options and pricing, weather it be a software based system, PABX system or hosted system. Also after you have some options do some checking on what they have proposed to make sure it's a good system and that it's not a system that only one company does as if that system or company disappears or goes under then you are again left in the dark.

Graham

www.offthehook.co.nz

igorportugal

82 posts

Master Geek

Trusted

#874515 9-Aug-2013 12:30

nzgman: you are only stuck in the past if you buy a cheap PABX.

100% in agreement with that! I also agree that most of the appliance based systems today are software PBXs themselves, but those aren't necessarily cheap and do require maintenance.

. Also after you have some options do some checking on what they have proposed to make sure it's a good system and that it's not a system that only one company does as if that system or company disappears or goes under then you are again left in the dark.

Every commercial PBX is only "done" by one company. Avaya - ditto, if it goes under you are in the dark.

If you really want to protect yourself from that eventuality, your only option is open source based PBX.

CTO
Vadacom Limited

nzgman

111 posts

Master Geek

Trusted

#874536 9-Aug-2013 12:50

igorportugal:
nzgman: you are only stuck in the past if you buy a cheap PABX.

100% in agreement with that! I also agree that most of the appliance based systems today are software PBXs themselves, but those aren't necessarily cheap and do require maintenance.

. Also after you have some options do some checking on what they have proposed to make sure it's a good system and that it's not a system that only one company does as if that system or company disappears or goes under then you are again left in the dark.

Every commercial PBX is only "done" by one company. Avaya - ditto, if it goes under you are in the dark.

If you really want to protect yourself from that eventuality, your only option is open source based PBX.

I was meaning the local company not the manufacture but yes if the manufacture went under you are left in the dark as well.

What I meant is if local company/reseller does brand X and there is no other company around that does that brand then you are stuck with that company even if you end up not liking there work, people or pricing later down the track.

Graham

www.offthehook.co.nz

igorportugal

82 posts

Master Geek

Trusted

#874538 9-Aug-2013 12:56

What I meant is if local company does brand X and there is no other company around that does that brand then you are stuck with that company even if you end up not liking there work, people or pricing later down the track.

I am not sure I follow the logic here.

If you don't like the reseller, you can always go direct to the manufacturer regardless of how many people represent the company - we have parallel importing laws, so this is well and truly protected by legislation.

If you don't like the manufacturer, then you are really in the same boat whoever the manufacturer is.

CTO
Vadacom Limited

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