Once upon a time PCs did what I told them ... Windows Updates

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Lias

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#1710187 26-Jan-2017 17:02

Rikkitic:

I would tend to agree with nunz on this one. My security consists primarily of having nothing on my pc that would ruin my life if it got compromised. I don't worry too much about updates and my firewall and AV protection is pretty basic. I do monitor my Internet traffic and since 1984, when I got my first computer, nothing nefarious has ever occurred. I am not part of any botnet, I don't receive spam, and I have never been hit by ransomware. Occasionally, when I think about it, I make backups, but there is nothing I would really miss since I mainly use my computers for streaming these days. If I ever do get wiped out, I will just restore and carry on. It is a much more relaxed and enjoyable way of doing things.

Honestly that's a bit like saying "I've been drink driving since 1984 and I haven't crashed or killed anyone yet, and it's more convenient for me this way".

I'm a geek, a gamer, a dad, a Quic user, and an IT Professional. I have a full rack home lab, size 15 feet, an epic beard and Asperger's. I'm a bit of a Cypherpunk, who believes information wants to be free and the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it. If you use my Quic signup you can also use the code R570394EKGIZ8 for free setup.

Rikkitic

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#1710193 26-Jan-2017 17:15

So what's the worst that can happen? If I do get bitten by something, I would know about it fairly quickly. Like I said, I just restore and carry on.

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Lias

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#1710197 26-Jan-2017 17:18

Rikkitic:

So what's the worst that can happen? If I do get bitten by something, I would know about it fairly quickly. Like I said, I just restore and carry on.

To you maybe.. If your PC is used as part of a botnet, to spam, to DDOS, others? If you use internet banking I'm assuming you will happily wear any any losses, and not expect the bank to cover them?

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#1710224 26-Jan-2017 18:30

That's just scaremongering. I monitor my traffic and if my pc was part of a botnet I would soon know it. I don't use Internet banking because I don't have a real need for it, but if I did I would use the same security I do now, which is a separate payments account with a debit card and a balance that is never more than a small amount over my anticipated needs. The most I could ever lose would be a couple hundred dollars, which the bank would probably reimburse anyway. You seem to assume I haven't thought this through. I just have a different approach to security than you do.

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MikeB4

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#1710227 26-Jan-2017 18:41

Rikkitic:
That's just scaremongering. I monitor my traffic and if my pc was part of a botnet I would soon know it. I don't use Internet banking because I don't have a real need for it, but if I did I would use the same security I do now, which is a separate payments account with a debit card and a balance that is never more than a small amount over my anticipated needs. The most I could ever lose would be a couple hundred dollars, which the bank would probably reimburse anyway. You seem to assume I haven't thought this through. I just have a different approach to security than you do.

Do you use any malware protection software?

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#1710229 26-Jan-2017 18:52

Yes, of course I do. I mainly rely on malwarebytes, along with Windows Defender, which I do update separately when I want to run a scan. This is passive, of course, but that has never been an issue for me. I also use other things, such as a javascript browser switch, which I normally keep off unless something I want to see doesn't work. Javascript is the source of most nuisanceware, as well as many infections.

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pillmonsta

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#1710238 26-Jan-2017 19:20

nunz:

This was a bad week or so for updates, even with Windows 7 -

Windows 7 - restarted my laptop twice in one day - automatically (or if not automatically then it must have launched a confirmation screen under a keystroke going into another window and chosen yes as the default answer. )

A client who has a single core Celeron based PC ( Thanks Harvey Norman) has been having huge issues. After 3 days and two auto reboots it's still using 100% cPU with windows updates, makecab.exe, dot net optimisation etc etc. Completely unusable.

What makes this weird is I disabled Windows updates to avoid this very issue. He wants to use his PC but literally 2 - 3 days for it to process some of the updates, remake cabs etc.

Previously disabled Windows Update Service and stopped it.
Created a batch file sc stop wuasrv that runs every start up.
Set settings to be never check for updates.
Killed the security service so it stopped whinging.
This got his PC working again but today it's all gone to hell in a hand basket. No matter what I do Windows Update re-enables itself and runs.

today I have:

Disabled Windows Update Service using Windows Services
Disabled windows updates using the Windows update settings screen and set to never check for updates.
Killed Security Centre so it wont check updates
Truned of Nod32 / Eset from checking if Windows updates are up to date
Used GWX Control panel and cleared all updates cache, all updates settings, and every other setting possible.
Turned off all security / monitoring systems which may ask if Windows updates are up to date
Created a log on batch file that sets Windows updates to disabled and turned off
Set registry to disabled. set auto delayed start registry setting for that to 0.
I've reset and rechecked everything 5 times, rebooted between changes and still Windows update service sets itself to Auto Start nad is running. It even survives sc stop wuasrc

CCleaner shows no auto startups setting it off. Task scheduler is now wiped clean. gpUpdate set nad run.
User is the sole user on the Pc and is an administrator.
Reran all the above using run as administrator.
Tried net stop windows update services settings.
Any ideas?

And if some one tells me Windows updates are required to keep a PC safe I'll throttle them. Windows updates cost my clients more downtime nad pain nad loss of production than everything else put together. A darn good firewall, AV and updated web browsers do more than windows updates do.

When I was young, PC's did as they were told and only when they were told. I backed up early and often as loss of work was caused by bad software or hardware not half baked / untested / PITN / intrusive updates auto rebooting and screwing around with the systems.

Unless you or the client have manually reconfigured the Security settings on C drive he will not be an Administrator or have Admin rights. Also, CCleaner only lists 3rd party apps in startup.

The first thing I would check is file syncing apps like One drive or DropBox as they are set to run by default where installed.

I do agree with your take on Windows Updates and Antivirus software. Best AV is common sense, I haven't run one in years (although I wouldn't recommend this to my clients) .... :D

Regarding W10, end users I deal with generally want to get rid of it, and most want to know how W10 got installed in the first place, ofc we can blame WUS for that. :P

I had a call just this morning from an SMB with 65 employees asking how to roll back to W7 after one machine upgraded itself to 10, he was not a happy man.....

Incidentally it was the only one of 7 which had Automatic Updates enabled. The other 6 have WUS set to manual start or disabled.....

If u want to post a screenshot of file/folder security settings we can see if there's an issue there...maybe run Systernals AutoRuns and post those results as well...

Cheers :)

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MikeB4

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#1710244 26-Jan-2017 19:27

Rikkitic:
Yes, of course I do. I mainly rely on malwarebytes, along with Windows Defender, which I do update separately when I want to run a scan. This is passive, of course, but that has never been an issue for me. I also use other things, such as a javascript browser switch, which I normally keep off unless something I want to see doesn't work. Javascript is the source of most nuisanceware, as well as many infections.

That's cool, just asking

darylblake

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#1710261 26-Jan-2017 20:04

If you don't like it. You don't have to use windows. But yeh should probably run the updates. Schedule them for a time that is convenient for you.

pillmonsta

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#1710302 26-Jan-2017 21:22

joker97:

Not anymore I'm afraid, the Apple model worked well so now Microsoft also knows what the clients want. THe clients will want what Microsoft wants. End of story. :(

Haha just saw this comment and nearly spilled my coffee...hilarious! :D. But so true unfortunately.....

1101

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#1710452 27-Jan-2017 09:23

Rikkitic:

That's just scaremongering.

It is just scaremongering
Claims by some about how vital winupdates are & the consequences just arnt born out in reality

Plenty of XP PC's still out there, they have NOT been hacked or turned into botnets
Plenty of WIn7,8,10 PC's on a SBS domain that dont get any updates because their SBS Servers WSUS is broken : Ive seen that many times.
Plenty of WIn7 PC's that now wont update at all , due to a known update issue .
Even when XP was current, many simply hadnt done get any Winupdates for years (I saw that alot)
Not ideal, It wasnt such a big deal ...in the real world ...

Ive seen plenty of fully updates Win PC's get virus/malware etc .
User stupidity is by far a bigger security threat than lack of Winupdates

And of course its usually better to update than not, but lets stop all the scaremongering.
Some laptops PC simply need Win10 updates disabled . Thats just the way things are .

Lias

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#1710545 27-Jan-2017 10:51

I think I'm done with this thread, the stupid is too strong.

Rikkitic

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#1710596 27-Jan-2017 11:57

Another who can't cope with dissenting opinion.

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