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nunz

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#207845 16-Jan-2017 15:35
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This was a bad week or so for updates, even with Windows 7 -

 

Windows 7 - restarted my laptop twice in one day - automatically (or if not automatically then it must have launched a confirmation screen under a keystroke going into another window and chosen yes as the default answer. )

 

A client who has a single core Celeron based PC ( Thanks Harvey Norman) has been having huge issues. After 3 days and two auto reboots it's still using 100% cPU with windows updates, makecab.exe, dot net optimisation etc etc. Completely unusable.

 

What makes this weird is I disabled Windows updates to avoid this very issue. He wants to use his PC but literally 2 - 3 days for it to process some of the updates, remake cabs etc.

 

  • Previously disabled Windows Update Service and stopped it.
  • Created a batch file sc stop wuasrv that runs every start up.
  • Set settings to be never check for updates.
  • Killed the security service so it stopped whinging.

This got his PC working again but today it's all gone to hell in a hand basket. No matter what I do Windows Update re-enables itself and runs.

 

today I have:

 

  • Disabled Windows Update Service using Windows Services
  • Disabled windows updates using the Windows update settings screen and set to never check for updates.
  • Killed Security Centre so it wont check updates
  • Truned of Nod32 / Eset from checking if Windows updates are up to date
  • Used GWX Control panel and cleared all updates cache, all updates settings, and every other setting possible.
  • Turned off all security  / monitoring systems which may ask if Windows updates are up to date
  • Created a log on batch file that sets Windows updates to disabled and turned off
  • Set registry to disabled. set auto delayed start registry setting for that to 0.

I've reset and rechecked everything 5 times, rebooted between changes and still Windows update service sets itself to Auto Start nad is running. It even survives sc stop wuasrc

 

  • CCleaner shows no auto startups setting it off. Task scheduler is now wiped clean. gpUpdate set nad run.
  • User is the sole user on the Pc and is an administrator.
  • Reran all the above using run as administrator.
  • Tried net stop windows update services settings.

Any ideas?

 

And if some one tells me Windows updates are required to keep a PC safe I'll throttle them. Windows updates cost my clients more downtime nad pain nad loss of production than everything else put together. A darn good firewall, AV and updated web browsers do more than windows updates do.

 

When I was young, PC's did as they were told and only when they were told. I backed up early and often as loss of work was caused by bad software or hardware  not half baked / untested / PITN / intrusive updates auto rebooting and screwing around with the systems.

 

 

 

 


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Lias
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  #1704247 16-Jan-2017 16:23
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Windows updates are required to keep a PC safe.





I'm a geek, a gamer, a dad and an IT Professional. I have a full rack home lab, size 15 feet, an epic beard and Asperger's. I'm a bit of a Cypherpunk, who believes information wants to be free and the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.


robjg63
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  #1704252 16-Jan-2017 16:33
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Lias:

 

Windows updates are required to keep a PC safe.

 

 

He warned you - sleep with both eyes open tonight!





Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler


sidefx
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  #1704284 16-Jan-2017 16:52
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nunz:

 

 

 

A client who has a single core Celeron based PC ( Thanks Harvey Norman) has been having huge issues. After 3 days and two auto reboots it's still using 100% cPU with windows updates, makecab.exe, dot net optimisation etc etc. Completely unusable.

 

What makes this weird is I disabled Windows updates to avoid this very issue.

 

 

 

 

It's probably completely unusable because of all the malware it's now running because it wasn't up-to-date. 

 

:P

 

 

 

(PS: Pls don't throttle me)





"I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change that here and there."         | Electric Kiwi | Sharesies
              - Richard Feynman




robjg63
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  #1704288 16-Jan-2017 16:55
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For what its worth, it now seems impossible to do a clean install of Windows 7 and manage to ever get it to update these days.

 

Admittedly, there were a heck of a lot of updates, with multiple reboots etc until to got up to date - but it worked - I did it frequently.

 

But the last 4 times or so the updater now seems to be completely knackered and you have to try all sorts to trickery to get it to even try and look at updates - I still couldnt get it going after that - would just hang.

 

Not exactly your issue, but maybe try this http://www.wsusoffline.net/ and see if it patches things and at least gets you stable.

 

  • Run the UpdateGenerator.exe
  • Make sure you choose the correct x86(32 bit in the first column) or 64bit (second column).
  • There are few other options you can select (or not) at the bottom.
  • Let it start and it chunders away for quite a while on a fresh Win7 - but at least you can see its pretty busy doing something.
  • Once its finished go to the clients folder and run UpdateInstaller.exe
  • Now it gets really busy installing - again - at least you can see its busy and is actually working through the updates quite efficiently.
  • You might have to run the UpdateInstaller.exe a few times of course - it wants reboots after various updates.

Do your own due diligence first of course.

 

 

 

 





Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler


nunz

1421 posts

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  #1704300 16-Jan-2017 17:15
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robjg63:

 

For what its worth, it now seems impossible to do a clean install of Windows 7 and manage to ever get it to update these days.

 

Admittedly, there were a heck of a lot of updates, with multiple reboots etc until to got up to date - but it worked - I did it frequently.

 

But the last 4 times or so the updater now seems to be completely knackered and you have to try all sorts to trickery to get it to even try and look at updates - I still couldnt get it going after that - would just hang.

 

Not exactly your issue, but maybe try this http://www.wsusoffline.net/ and see if it patches things and at least gets you stable.

 

  • Run the UpdateGenerator.exe
  • Make sure you choose the correct x86(32 bit in the first column) or 64bit (second column).
  • There are few other options you can select (or not) at the bottom.
  • Let it start and it chunders away for quite a while on a fresh Win7 - but at least you can see its pretty busy doing something.
  • Once its finished go to the clients folder and run UpdateInstaller.exe
  • Now it gets really busy installing - again - at least you can see its busy and is actually working through the updates quite efficiently.
  • You might have to run the UpdateInstaller.exe a few times of course - it wants reboots after various updates.

Do your own due diligence first of course.

 

 

 

 

 

 

i use that app - and have gigs and gigs of updates. When I reinstall any os, inluding Windows XP ( yes there is a good reason to do that sometimes) it jsut goes and goes nad goes - reboots and updates beautifully.


nunz

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  #1704302 16-Jan-2017 17:18
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sidefx:

 

nunz:

 

 

 

A client who has a single core Celeron based PC ( Thanks Harvey Norman) has been having huge issues. After 3 days and two auto reboots it's still using 100% cPU with windows updates, makecab.exe, dot net optimisation etc etc. Completely unusable.

 

What makes this weird is I disabled Windows updates to avoid this very issue.

 

 

 

 

It's probably completely unusable because of all the malware it's now running because it wasn't up-to-date. 

 

:P

 

 

 

(PS: Pls don't throttle me)

 

 

I've removed the malware from my other PC - it now runs Linux instead of Win 10.

 

Furthermore - Your begging not to be throttled has been noted. Will call off your ISP geeks from cutting back your max speed to 56kbps and remove the draconian data cap immediately. 

 

Regards

 

Shane (the merciful and wise but oft times slightly grumpy and forgetful.)

 

 

 

 


Athlonite
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  #1704305 16-Jan-2017 17:25
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The very easiest fix here would be for your friend to buy a cheapo windows 10 home laptop and stop flogging a dead horse 




Batman
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  #1704310 16-Jan-2017 17:58
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Not anymore I'm afraid, the Apple model worked well so now Microsoft also knows what the clients want. THe clients will want what Microsoft wants. End of story. :(





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


ANglEAUT
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#1704557 17-Jan-2017 10:39
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nunz: ...

 

This was a bad week or so for updates, even with Windows 7 - ...

 

After 3 days and two auto reboots it's still using 100% cPU with windows updates ...

 

There are known issues with Windows Update hogging 100% CPU and not functioning correctly. Microsoft changed something with Windows Update & now older version of WUA can't update themselves to get the latest patches.

 

 

 

A lot more detail and suggested fixes available at http://wu.krelay.de/en/, courtesy of Dalai.





Please keep this GZ community vibrant by contributing in a constructive & respectful manner.

 

RZmask referral | SmartAss


robjg63
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  #1704583 17-Jan-2017 11:23
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Killing the updater in Win7 would almost seem part of MS plan to put a few more bullets in Windows 7.

 

But it could just be general stupidity.

 

Anyone wish to vote?





Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler


Rikkitic
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  #1704644 17-Jan-2017 12:40
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On general principles I vote for general stupidity.

 

 





Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

 


 


Oblivian
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  #1705391 18-Jan-2017 18:23
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Kind of related, WSUS Offline has been upgraded in the last week to now have the option to disable the rollup and still get non cumulative security only to stop any 'features' rearing their heads unexpectantly


nunz

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  #1709594 25-Jan-2017 20:14
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robjg63:

 

Killing the updater in Win7 would almost seem part of MS plan to put a few more bullets in Windows 7.

 

But it could just be general stupidity.

 

Anyone wish to vote?

 

 

The way I look at updates:

 

Other than the occasional stability / driver update that actually does add something there is very little need. Here's why.

 

If I have a firewall stopping all unexpected incoming, and if i have a good antivirus / antimalware ( which tends to do quick updates to kill the latest exploits quicker than Ms updates) then the rest of the updates from Ms are almost redundant. Use Mozilla, updated for security, a decent mail system updated for security and most of your security issues are null and void.

 

Add to that equation the amount of downtime and pain caused by updates, subtract the time required to rebuild a pc if there was a major exploit - and you find you are still well ahead of the game taking a risk of being exploited.  I'm so far ahead of the game in time saved by having updates turned off that I could rebuild my PC 10 x over and still be better off in lost productivity and downtime.

 

Take a look at the GZ forums - thousands of messages re problems and slow downs caused by updates. Very very very few about an exploit ( such as the jpeg overflow or similar quirky beast) that got through a decent AV and router firewall.

 

From a risk / reward / perspective it makes sense to not update.

 

Just a thought.

 

 


Lias
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  #1709700 25-Jan-2017 23:28
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I'd disagree fairly drastically with that nunz.

 

AntiVirus is now only a small part part of the picture, the signatures are out of date before they are even released, and any attack vector worth it's salt isn't going to be detected. Firewall wise, anything other than an NGFW is basically sandbags in a flood, it'll stop some stuff but not nearly enough, and NGFW's are still only a brick in the wall. Patches if anything are an increasingly larger part of the puzzle. The vast majority of end users who are compromised are not hit by zero days, they are hit by unpatched browser and plugin vulnerabilities (e.g. Java & Flash). Drive by code installs from compromised websites, compromised ad networks, phishing emails, etc.  Some truly terrible statistics around patching, e.g. in 2015 99.9% of all exploited vulnerabilities were compromised 12+ months after the vulnerabilities had been patched, and the number one vulnerability being exploited was patched by Microsoft in 2010. 

 

Personally if I had to chose only one defence for my PC out of a firewall, an AV product, and being fully patched, I'd chose being fully patched every time.





I'm a geek, a gamer, a dad and an IT Professional. I have a full rack home lab, size 15 feet, an epic beard and Asperger's. I'm a bit of a Cypherpunk, who believes information wants to be free and the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.


Rikkitic
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  #1709744 26-Jan-2017 08:24
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I would tend to agree with nunz on this one. My security consists primarily of having nothing on my pc that would ruin my life if it got compromised. I don't worry too much about updates and my firewall and AV protection is pretty basic. I do monitor my Internet traffic and since 1984, when I got my first computer, nothing nefarious has ever occurred. I am not part of any botnet, I don't receive spam, and I have never been hit by ransomware. Occasionally, when I think about it, I make backups, but there is nothing I would really miss since I mainly use my computers for streaming these days. If I ever do get wiped out, I will just restore and carry on. It is a much more relaxed and enjoyable way of doing things.

 

 





Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

 


 


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