Surface 2, most important feature ...

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crackrdbycracku

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Topic # 129380 13-Sep-2013 12:18

... which of course will be price.

So how much would you pay?

My thinking is the recent price cuts to the current line have generated a customer expectation that these devices will be 'competitively priced' and we all know who the competition is.

So, for the Pro I want to hear "cheaper than a MacBook Air". It's a replacement for a laptop, but it isn't double the price.

If they really want to make this attractive they can throw in Office, that would make it a serious Ultrabook alternative.

For the RT replacement which wants to be called 'just Surface 2, thanks', I want to hear "cheaper than an iPad", thanks.

If these don't come with something pretty similar to Office then forget it.

The pricing should include a least the basic touch cover, paying more for one with a battery as rumoured is fair enough but nobody is seriously considering buying one of these things without some kind of typing keyboard. The marketing always emphasises the typing keyboard, include it.

I'm actually pretty excited about this launch and if they price the either properly I'd be interested in actually buying one. Either way it will be interesting to see how much MS have actually taken on board from consumer 'feedback'.

So, what about you all?

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Reply # 895157 13-Sep-2013 12:24

Keep the feedback coming. We're listening

dickytim

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Reply # 895158 13-Sep-2013 12:25

Price for the pro would need to be close to the Iconia W510, then the keyboard.

I think they NEED 3G or 4G built in for it to be considered as serious business tool.

The Acer 511(P) is around $1600 with a keyboard and lasts 18 hours with both batteries.

They need to match or better this device, to do that the price has to be close to the Acer unit or it needs to be that much faster/ nicer to use.

We are rolling out the Acers to replace Ipads at the moment.

nathan

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Reply # 895161 13-Sep-2013 12:28

The challenge there is the price of the CPU. A Intel Core i5 is substantially more than the Z2760 Atom

dickytim

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Reply # 895173 13-Sep-2013 12:39

nathan: The challenge there is the price of the CPU. A Intel Core i5 is substantially more than the Z2760 Atom

I understand that, but for $1399 (got the pricing wrong) you can get an Acer W511P with 3G, Office home and student, keyboard and 18 hours battery life.

I will admit it can be a bit slow with the Atom chip and a i5 will likely run it a lot better and give a better user experience, but from a business point of view I don't know how much that is actually worth?

$200-$300 maybe as a premium?

Would I change to the surface with a keyboard, i5, 3G for $1599-$1699 probably not, but for $1499 with all mentioned more than likely!

crackrdbycracku

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Reply # 895176 13-Sep-2013 12:45

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OK, you want feedback.

The 'just Surface 2' needs to be an tablet. Portable, easy to use, long battery life. Ditch 'desktop mode' I don't have one on my Windows Phone and Office still works fine for the stuff I want to do on the move. Find a way to stop the reviews saying 'it can't run Windows legacy apps', maybe point out the neither can Windows Phone and iOS can't run legacy MacOS apps and nobody cares because these are not PCs (at this point resist the urge to say 'you morons').

The Pro needs to be laptop replacement. iCore 5 is a good start, in a perfect world you would also offer an iCor 3 to keep the cost down but this isn't a perfect world. Emphasis that this is the ultimate in portable computing, not a tablet with a keyboard thrown in but a real computer you can easily carry.

Oh yeah, and don't forget that you are not Apple. We need that 'cheaper than' bit. Remember the Playbook, that was priced like an iPad. Don't be RIM, don't bring a expensive blunt knife to a gunfight.

If you make it properly and price it cheaper than the other guy, I and the rest of the world will buy it. We didn't buy Surface RT or Pro initially because we are consumers and we have to spend our own money.

Ask yourself 'If it was my money, would I buy it?'

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Inphinity

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Reply # 895198 13-Sep-2013 13:39

crackrdbycracku:

Ask yourself 'If it was my money, would I buy it?'

There are other considerations, too. Personally, I had no issue with the cost of the Surface RT for example, but to me it was more about "It doesn't really offer anything that my phone doesn't do, and I'm carrying that anyway". I have an Asus Transformer tablet that I also rarely use anymore. When I got it, it made day-to-day on the go productivity tasks far easier than a phone could at the time, without having to take a laptop or even netbook with me.

Now, for sure, there are some uses for a larger device, but what day-to-day on the go tasks need the larger tablet format? Most don't now, imo. That's why I haven't bought a newer tablet.

Windows 7 x64 // i5-3570K // 16GB DDR3-1600 // GTX660Ti 2GB // Samsung 830 120GB SSD // OCZ Agility4 120GB SSD // Samsung U28D590D @ 3840x2160 & Asus PB278Q @ 2560x1440
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crackrdbycracku

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Reply # 895228 13-Sep-2013 14:05

Inphinity: "It doesn't really offer anything that my phone doesn't do, and I'm carrying that anyway".

I agree with you and that is why I don't have a tablet at present, generally if I want something bigger than a phone I want a laptop.

Thing is there are how many million iPhone users that also bought an iPad, or hell they even bought an iPad Mini! They have a phone with a 4" screen but they also needed a 7" screen? And these guys and gals also have a 'proper computer' as well, either a laptop or a desktop, or both.

Personally, I like to think I didn't buy a Surface RT because I saw it as an unfinished product, a beta. I think the concept is actually good but it wasn't executed correctly and the price was too high to buy one just to try it out.

I would like to buy a properly executed Surface RT because I don't want something to replace my laptop, I want a tablet to compliment it. But if the wife is using the laptop then I can snap on the keyboard and do some word processing. The other option would be a cheap Ultrabook/netbook but the advantages of a Surface RT would be battery life and that I would watch videos easier or read ebooks sitting on a bean bag.

Yeah, that isn't a big market niche. That is why the price has to be right, it can't be too much of an opportunity cost. I can't think: 'Yeah, but for $50 - $100 more I could get ...". Under those circumstances Microsoft will be writing off another billion dollars.

I didn't expect the RT to run legacy MS apps, I have a laptop for that, but this was the dominant message surrounding the Surface RT.

With the next generation the message should be: 'It can do all this, and it's cheaper than an .... "

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TwoSeven

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Reply # 895270 13-Sep-2013 14:38

From using my surface pro quite heavily these are my improvements that I would like to see.

I have the type keyboard. This is a generally excellent keyboard but with two really big annoyances. When used on a non-flat (i.e. a desk), the keyboard is too flexible making it almost impossible to type. I would like to see this keyboard more rigid.

The touchpad (mouse) part of the keyboard needs to be of the split design so that right-mouse-clicks actually work. Unless one purposely presses the touchpad in a specific location, the result is always a left mouse click. I believe there is a shortcut action that one can do, but I use too many different devices to remember.

Wedge Mouse - excellent, but again this needs to have split keys as it suffers the same left mouse clicking problem.

Battery life needs to be a minimum of 6 hours with most features turned on (Wifi and BT). Memory needs to be at least 8GB (4GB is ok, but I use Hyper-V). SSD needs to have a 256GB option - but not important (I have a 64GB SD card plugged in).

Screen - they really need to address the small font problem - I like my font set to 100% so it works well with remote desktop. However, one needs to sit very close to the Surface screen in order to be able to read the text. I have not tried the device connected directly to a monitor as I don't have the correct HDMI adaptor.

I would really really like to see a dock, however, I don't want to use the surfaces kickstand - the dock should support the unit with the kickstand closed., and would prefer to leave the keyboard attached (its just an easy of use thing). Usually when I am at home I just close my surface up and remote into it while it is connected to the power supply.

Kickstand, this should support multiple angles rather than just one (or two I think in the next surface). Very difficult to use surface on ones lap with kickstand and keyboard.

Sound output could be louder - bit hard to hear when doing demos and the like. I do have a portable speaker that I can attach but I forget to carry it quite often.

Windows 8.1
Well, where to start really. I have posted my defects on this forum as I found them. Basically, I don't use the modern UI/Apps side of things - there is better functionality using the traditional desktop (I have sometimes uses the APP version of IE in touch mode.)

Bluetooth - needs a heck of a lot of work, if I tether to a BT phone, it drops connections and is unreliable when waking from sleep. Often can't use the BT wedge mouse as it stutters and jumps around the screen. BT PAN support needs to be first class and show up in the network options with auto-connect same as WIFI. Hyper-V needs a BT bridge as hosts cant connect to internet if tethered via BT. BT is an important component if one is mobile quite often because it is low power (on phone and surface) which is quite useful. Also on phone it does not get disabled if the phone (IPhone goes into sleep mode).

Wifi doesn't resume connections when tethered to a phone (especially an iphone) but works really well if a normal home Acess point.

Need to fix Outlook TLS Security certificates as can't send email to Hotmail/outlook.com using SMTP.

The other issue that is cropping up (and this is an office 2010 and later issue so not really related) is that as email services are moving to IMAP, Outlook does not support receiving email from different email providers into the same inbox and set of folders (it does using POP/SMTP). This is making it more and more difficult to send/receive/find emails. If they could change the IMAP settings so one can choose to put email into the same inbox (pst file), this would be a excellent feature. (Sorry but I don't use cloud services too much because I often have to work offline or tethered to mobile where data is expensive).

Other

I don't agree with the built in 3G/4G most Telco's here don't support multiple sims on one account and I don't believe in giving money away by paying additional monthly fees for no good reason (especially when one can just tether to a phone).

The core i5 should be the minimum processor spec for the surface pro. It is just in the sweet spot -especially when running hyper-v.

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semigeek

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Reply # 895290 13-Sep-2013 15:00

I don't really have too many issues with the RT. but the following are things I would like to see:

Space bar on the touch keyboard needs to be moved in a bit and slightly wider/deeper
The stand needs to be able to tilt back a bit further
Remove the desktop, there really is no need for it, a tile that opens to a saved document area would suffice.
3G/4G ability

NZVengeance

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Reply # 895291 13-Sep-2013 15:02

TwoSeven:
I don't agree with the built in 3G/4G most Telco's here don't support multiple sims on one account and I don't believe in giving money away by paying additional monthly fees for no good reason (especially when one can just tether to a phone).

2Degrees does shared Data and Vodafones red Super gives you 4Gb on the phone and 1GB for a tablet (I realize it would be better the other way but better than nothing.

Inphinity

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Reply # 895292 13-Sep-2013 15:05

TwoSeven:
Screen - they really need to address the small font problem - I like my font set to 100% so it works well with remote desktop. However, one needs to sit very close to the Surface screen in order to be able to read the text. I have not tried the device connected directly to a monitor as I don't have the correct HDMI adaptor.

Hmm, must say I'm a bit confused on this. As far as I can see the fonts look normal for 1920x1080 on a ~10" screen. Are you asking them to decrease screen resolution, or increase screen size?

NZVengeance

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Reply # 895309 13-Sep-2013 15:29

I would like to see the following:

Power adapter have a stronger magnet. It comes out far too easily.
Better battery life. I would like to see 6+ house out of the pro.
Like mentioned by other people the split mouse design
4G connectivity for sure
Desktop Dock with USB3, Dual DVI (twin monitor Support) etc etc. Think HP Probook

Wade

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Reply # 895328 13-Sep-2013 16:05

The surface pro is outstanding value compared to its rival i5 W8 tablets so keep the Pro 2 at it's current pricing or cheaper and I am going to have to start working out how i convince the wife i need to buy one!

The Surface 2 like the original surface will be a fantastic flop, great design, look and feel but people expect a microsoft tablet to do microsoft things. Throw an atom Z2760 in there and sell it as an entry level W8 hybrid and the same people that dismiss the RT will flock to the hybrid version

I have a Samsung XE500 and whilst a occasionally it runs out of puff it does so much, i use it predominantly in metro mode but it is so reassuring to be able to flick to desktop mode when required.

crackrdbycracku

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Reply # 895346 13-Sep-2013 16:31

Wade: The Surface 2 like the original surface will be a fantastic flop, great design, look and feel but people expect a microsoft tablet to do microsoft things. Throw an atom Z2760 in there and sell it as an entry level W8 hybrid and the same people that dismiss the RT will flock to the hybrid version

It appears like Asus was listening.

http://www.itwire.com/your-it-news/home-it/61524-asus-takes-windows-tablets-to-task-bye-bye-rt

Basically a Transformer with an Atom chip running W8 with 2 GB of ram, for about US$350.

That makes it about $750 to $800 retail in NZ?

Good luck selling RT devices over NZ$500 with this in the market.

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networkn

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Reply # 895351 13-Sep-2013 16:44

Unless the Pro is slimmer and lighter and includes office, I can't see any reason to buy it over most ultrabooks.

If I could find an RT Tablet really cheap I'd drop my Android tablet.

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