Microsoft's anti-competitive AV stance?

Forums › Microsoft Windows › Microsoft's anti-competitive AV stance?

kiwifidget

1476 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 319

Subscriber

Topic # 204960 25-Oct-2016 09:07

Since getting pre-release 160916-1700 I have been getting a blue screen every morning.

The BSOD points it's big angry finger at MBAMSwissArmy.sys every time.

Once the computer has rebooted I'm good for the rest of the day, but the problem will be back when I start to use my PC the next day, so I guess its being caused by the scan that runs during the night.

It's been going on for a few days so I decided to google what was going on.

I cant find anything on Malware's site but I found this in Microsoft's forum : http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/forum/insider_wintp-insider_perf/blue-screen-of-death-mbamswissarmysys/37bd7b1c-ea7e-4750-a678-f535f15ab1f3

The resolution seems to be to uninstall ALL 3rd party AV/malware products. I'm not sure if that is Microsoft's official response, but I've been using MBAM (licensed) since Win10 was first released with no problem until this version.

I know there are a few MBAM users here, is anyone else experiencing this issue?

Life is too short to remove USB safely.

old3eyes

7912 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 802

Subscriber

Reply # 1657232 25-Oct-2016 09:28

When I installed preview 14946 as a clean build and installed Nod32 halfway thru the install I got the BSOD. A Google search showed the same thing as you found. I deleted the offending Nod32 file and and win 10 booted OK but I can't remove or reinstall Nod 32 at present..

I see that 14946 is now out..

Regards,

Old3eyes

kiwifidget

1476 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 319

Subscriber

Reply # 1657239 25-Oct-2016 09:44

I'm on the slow ring so I'd be interested to know if any fast-ringers can confirm if the next release is more 3rd party friendly.

Life is too short to remove USB safely.

MikeB4

13612 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 6372

Trusted

Subscriber

Reply # 1657270 25-Oct-2016 10:29

5 people support this post

I doubt it's deliberate anti competitive activity. It's pre-release software I doubt third party providers are working on their products to make them work with fast or slow rings, maybe more so in release ring. Have you used the feedback tool to advise MSFT of this activity?

Mike
Retired IT Manager.
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

Mac user, Windows curser, Chrome OS desired.

The great divide is the lies from both sides.

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
61837 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 12491

Administrator

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

Reply # 1657280 25-Oct-2016 10:44

3 people support this post

Quick to blame anti-competitive practices folks should remember this is beta software.

Backblaze cloud backup (personal and business) | Geekzone broadband switch | Amazon (Geekzone aff) | MightyApe (Geekzone aff) |

My technology disclosure | Business Transformation | Enterprise Content Management | Customer Relationship Management | Sharesies investment fund

kiwifidget

1476 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 319

Subscriber

Reply # 1657293 25-Oct-2016 10:55

Hence my question mark, so don't start hating on me.

Life is too short to remove USB safely.

MikeB4

13612 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 6372

Trusted

Subscriber

Reply # 1657297 25-Oct-2016 11:02

Not hating on you at all.

Report it and you would be best to delete the offending software. Stick with Windows Defender in the pre-release rings.

Mike
Retired IT Manager.
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

Mac user, Windows curser, Chrome OS desired.

The great divide is the lies from both sides.

MikeAqua

5326 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2163

Reply # 1657302 25-Oct-2016 11:11

2 people support this post

Surely it's up to third party providers to make sure their software remains compatible within the windows environment?

Mike

kiwifidget

1476 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 319

Subscriber

Reply # 1657315 25-Oct-2016 11:14

Is Defender really good enough though?

I get the whole beta scenario by the way. We are the guinea pigs, and when we find a problem that is seemingly caused by a new release, instead of saying "oops, did we break that, let us look into it" it's more like "sucks to be you, too bad you paid good money for that, delete it".

How can there be any proper testing of 3rd party AV products if Insiders are just told not to use them, full stop? I mean, whats next, all non-Microsoft software? Epic use of hyperbole by the way, but every slippery slope starts somewhere.

Either Microsoft or Malware will have to deal with it, probably in conjunction with each other. I just find their attitude a bit off here.

Life is too short to remove USB safely.

gzt

10320 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1586

Reply # 1657325 25-Oct-2016 11:25

Did Microsoft provide that advice? The page linked does not contain any information provided by Microsoft.

nathan

4994 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1329

Trusted

Microsoft

Reply # 1657331 25-Oct-2016 11:30

2 people support this post

sounds like you want to get off the Windows Insider Preview program builds and get back onto current branch.

MikeB4

13612 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 6372

Trusted

Subscriber

Reply # 1657341 25-Oct-2016 11:39

I have no issues with Defender it does the job well on production builds and pre-release. I am on the slow ring at present.

Mike
Retired IT Manager.
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

Mac user, Windows curser, Chrome OS desired.

The great divide is the lies from both sides.

kiwifidget

1476 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 319

Subscriber

Reply # 1657365 25-Oct-2016 11:57

gzt: Did Microsoft provide that advice? The page linked does not contain any information provided by Microsoft.

I dont know, I did question that myself in my original post.

It would be nice to know if the comments in that forum are endorsed by Microsoft or not though. It does look like an official MS site.

I see Nathan didn't confirm or deny it, just suggested I leave the slow ring, which seems entirely unhelpful.

But I dont mind "slow", and this is not the first software I've had go awry. And I can live with this fault, I'm sure it will be sorted in due course.

I gather from the responses so far that I am alone in my concerns, which is all I really needed to know.

Life is too short to remove USB safely.

gzt

10320 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1586

Reply # 1657532 25-Oct-2016 16:16

Anyone can comment on those Microsoft forums that's the thing. Further I'd guess even a lot of the lower level ms people there are regarded as commenting somewhat informally.

The issue may or may not be a fault in the operating system. There are a lot of possibilities. Random example an additional security feature that ISVs have not yet catered for in their software. There could be good reasons if it is still present.

I'd guess the MS perspective is there will be faults and issues and they are very grateful for the metrics received from the insider program.

TwoSeven

1276 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 138

Reply # 1657621 25-Oct-2016 18:31

One person supports this post

It looks like you are running insider preview which are developor builds. It is a good idea to use a dedicated test machine or VM for testing insider builds.

Software Engineer

nathan

4994 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1329

Trusted

Microsoft

Reply # 1657818 26-Oct-2016 02:23

kiwifidget:

gzt: Did Microsoft provide that advice? The page linked does not contain any information provided by Microsoft.

I dont know, I did question that myself in my original post.

It would be nice to know if the comments in that forum are endorsed by Microsoft or not though. It does look like an official MS site.

I see Nathan didn't confirm or deny it, just suggested I leave the slow ring, which seems entirely unhelpful.

But I dont mind "slow", and this is not the first software I've had go awry. And I can live with this fault, I'm sure it will be sorted in due course.

I gather from the responses so far that I am alone in my concerns, which is all I really needed to know.

Sorry I wasn't helpful

these blog posts call out known issues with AVs

AV tends to always a problem because it uses very low level functions in the OS including filter drivers. We see 99% appcompat between Win7/Win10. AV generally falls into the 1%

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2016/10/13/announcing-windows-10-insider-preview-build-14946-for-pc-and-mobile/

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2016/10/19/announcing-windows-10-insider-preview-build-14951-for-mobile-and-pc/

The Windows Insider population receives flighted builds that help improve our ability to find compatibility issues before a final build is released to customers. This feedback process not only exposes bugs, but ensures we are shipping features our users want.