Before the end of WIndows 10, my guess is there will not be a significant rise in Linux Users

Forums › Linux › Before the end of WIndows 10, my guess is there will not be a significant rise in Linux Users

1 | 2 | 3

36 posts

Geek
+1 received by user: 9

#3359580 1-Apr-2025 21:19

I only have 1 Win 10 (upgraded to 11) , this runs BlueIris. My other 2 desktops and laptop run Linux, the laptop Linux Mint as is my daily driver and used for work , 1 desktop is Linux Mint the other Ubuntu server and runs DNS , fileshares etc.

I'm 61 and find using LM very easy and dont really have any issues using it.

d3Xt3r

697 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 132

Trusted

#3359581 1-Apr-2025 21:29

KiwiSurfer:

[...]

For new users I'd recommend Debian.

Sorry, but I respectfully disagree. Don't get me wrong, Debian is excellent and I use it myself (on servers and RPis). But it is not really newbie friendly. For example, consider upgrading the OS: you have to follow a whole bunch of steps in the right order and pray everything goes well. Just take a look at the official instructions for upgrading - which can seem daunting even for tech-savvy folks. And if you've added other repos, or manually installed some .debs, then there's a high chance you'll run into package conflicts. Nothing that an experienced user would bat an eyelid at, but all this isn't something a newbie should be expected to do.

The other issue is Debian isn't very ideal for gamers, or folks with with recent hardware, due to outaded packages (kernel, gfx drivers etc). This is my biggest personal gripe with Debian and why I don't use it on my workstations. For instance, Bookworm is still on kernel 6.1, whereas the latest mainline kernel is 6.14. Even the upcoming Trixie release will be only on 6.12.

New kernel versions means better hardware support, which is crucial if you've got a recent PC or new peripherals.

And for gamers, new kernel versions often mean better gaming performance or stability. For e.g. kernel 6.14 includes the NTSYNC patch which can provide a significant performance boost in various games:

Performance aside, NTSYNC is much more compatible sync method compared to the existing esync/fsync - which means better game stability and compatibility. So sadly Debian users - even future Trixie users - won't be able to enjoy benefits like this for a long time.

Of course, there are potential solutions for this, but they have caveats:

Running Sid / Unstable: This isn't really advisable for non-technical users as it can be unstable, and there are often package conflicts or dependency issues.
Manually installing the latest mainline kernel/mesa etc: This isn't advisable either as you'll likely break your system, or run into issues when you do an update/upgrade. And if you're using a proprietary driver (like nVidia or Broadcom) there's a good chance you may run into compatibility issues with it as well.

Rikkitic

Awrrr
19071 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 16318

Lifetime subscriber

#3359689 2-Apr-2025 09:51

I have dabbled with Mint several times but always drift back to Windows. Not that Windows is so great but I get tired of having to look every single thing up. For me Windows is intuitive, Linux definitely not. But I will soon try again!

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

SpartanVXL

1498 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 666

#3359691 2-Apr-2025 09:53

The problem with gamers who still might want win11 dual boot is secure boot, afaik not many distros with latest kernel and also support secure boot. Arch is possible but takes a bit of effort, not for the average user.

win11 is not the sole reason for secure boot, games themselves are asking for it e.g. valorant.

Otherwise I think you have to switch it on/off it every time you switch.

d3Xt3r

697 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 132

Trusted

#3359692 2-Apr-2025 10:09

SpartanVXL:

The problem with gamers who still might want win11 dual boot is secure boot, afaik not many distros with latest kernel and also support secure boot. Arch is possible but takes a bit of effort, not for the average user.

win11 is not the sole reason for secure boot, games themselves are asking for it e.g. valorant.

Otherwise I think you have to switch it on/off it every time you switch.

I disagree with the "not many distros" remark - all the big distros (yes, even ones with the latest kernel) support it, and some distros even make it super easy. With Fedora-based distros for instance, all you have to do is select the "Enroll MOK" option after the post-install reboot, enter the password, and that's it. Check out the secure boot instructions for Bazzite for instance and you'll see that it's literally just one step.

As for Arch, it has always been a DIY distro, so if someone was able to install Arch, they shouldn't have any issues following the instructions to enable secure boot.

axxaa

66 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 16

ID Verified

#3359697 2-Apr-2025 10:49

Linux is my main os, only dipping into windows for the odd specific rf application tool. I run KDE Neon. Painless install, everything works even runs ok on a spare 2011 macbook air with 2g ram.

Samsung

Shop now on Samsung phones, tablets, TVs and more (affiliate link).

KiwiSurfer

1725 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 994

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#3359710 2-Apr-2025 12:01

d3Xt3r:

Sorry, but I respectfully disagree. Don't get me wrong, Debian is excellent and I use it myself (on servers and RPis). But it is not really newbie friendly. For example, consider upgrading the OS: you have to follow a whole bunch of steps in the right order and pray everything goes well. Just take a look at the official instructions for upgrading - which can seem daunting even for tech-savvy folks. And if you've added other repos, or manually installed some .debs, then there's a high chance you'll run into package conflicts. Nothing that an experienced user would bat an eyelid at, but all this isn't something a newbie should be expected to do.

FWIW that instructions seems quite over the top and possibly includes far more than is necessary for single user machines. I've generally just stuck with apt upgrade and it works well for point releases. Once a new version comes out I generally back up and install the new version as a fresh installation. I do the same for other OSes including Windows every few years. I do hear that Debian upgrades between versions are quite easily done -- I know of people who have upgraded through several machines through several version of Debian with little hassle. I just prefer to start from a fresh install however (regardless of OS).

I have one machine still running Debian 11 which is the previous version -- and there is LTS support for that version from 2021 to 2026. So for the machine you use occasionally that you don't want to replace with Win11, Debian offers a nice option to just install and forget until the LTS support expires. Current version is 12 which will have LTS support until 2028. However 13 is likely to come out this year and that will probably be supported to 2030.

The other issue is Debian isn't very ideal for gamers, or folks with with recent hardware, due to outaded packages (kernel, gfx drivers etc). This is my biggest personal gripe with Debian and why I don't use it on my workstations. For instance, Bookworm is still on kernel 6.1, whereas the latest mainline kernel is 6.14. Even the upcoming Trixie release will be only on 6.12.

Agree Debian may not be suitable for those with recent hardware. I assume people on Windows 10 and unable to upgrade to Win11 are the subject of this discussion. These users are unlikely to be gamers running the bleeding edge hardware. They will very likely have mature hardware well supported by the kernel currently in Debian stable and thus the "outdated" kernels are a non-issue -- the kernel is well maintained following their support lifecycle. Debian will backport any major fixes if need be. I run Debian on a range of machines and all works well -- even laptops are well supported, I have two laptops which both have support for everything out of the box.

For those with newer machines, that is where my recommendation for Arch comes into the picture. Arch is a great bleeding edge distro -- but that does come with its own drawbacks. For a old machine you just use occasionally or have low demand for -- you just want a distro that you can put on and it just works with the occasional minor software updates. This is where Debian excels IMHO.

openmedia

3449 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 878

Trusted

#3359715 2-Apr-2025 12:40

Rikkitic:

I have dabbled with Mint several times but always drift back to Windows. Not that Windows is so great but I get tired of having to look every single thing up. For me Windows is intuitive, Linux definitely not. But I will soon try again!

Depends on your muscle memory. I find it incredibly hard to use Windows 10 and 11, whilst using Fedora as my daily OS is very intuitive.

Generally known online as OpenMedia, now working for Red Hat APAC as a Technology Evangelist and Portfolio Architect. Still playing with MythTV and digital media on the side.

ezbee

2657 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3099

#3359720 2-Apr-2025 13:26

Funnily Windows 11 is irksome to use for many Windows 10 users.
So 'loyal' Windows users feel snubbed.

Thus the reluctance of many to upgrade even if they can.
Plus the number of scripts around to try to return Win10 experience to Win11.
They may not be a complete solution nor survive updates etc.

SpartanVXL

1498 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 666

#3359723 2-Apr-2025 14:10

d3Xt3r:

SpartanVXL:

The problem with gamers who still might want win11 dual boot is secure boot, afaik not many distros with latest kernel and also support secure boot. Arch is possible but takes a bit of effort, not for the average user.

win11 is not the sole reason for secure boot, games themselves are asking for it e.g. valorant.

Otherwise I think you have to switch it on/off it every time you switch.

I disagree with the "not many distros" remark - all the big distros (yes, even ones with the latest kernel) support it, and some distros even make it super easy. With Fedora-based distros for instance, all you have to do is select the "Enroll MOK" option after the post-install reboot, enter the password, and that's it. Check out the secure boot instructions for Bazzite for instance and you'll see that it's literally just one step.

As for Arch, it has always been a DIY distro, so if someone was able to install Arch, they shouldn't have any issues following the instructions to enable secure boot.

Thanks that is useful to know, when I previously looked it was pretty much just Ubuntu, which led to me installing kubuntu. Although I think nvidia drivers also affected my decision too. So far it has been working quite well, even upgraded from 22.04 to 24.04 without hassle.

nitro

761 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 338

#3359725 2-Apr-2025 14:44

ezbee:

Funnily Windows 11 is irksome to use for many Windows 10 users.
So 'loyal' Windows users feel snubbed.

Thus the reluctance of many to upgrade even if they can.
Plus the number of scripts around to try to return Win10 experience to Win11.
They may not be a complete solution nor survive updates etc.

in my circle (of course, it could be completely different for the people you know), this is only true for those who do not have the right hardware for W11, and are either unable or unwilling to front up the cash for a new one that meets W11. in other words, forcibly installed W11, and ar

i had Ubuntu at home before, but there was always something i needed to be in Windows for. i imagine it's the same for the vast majority of personal/home users. i've never heard a Win user say, "I need to switch to Linux for this".

Apple TV

Stream your favourite shows now on Apple TV (affiliate link).

d3Xt3r

697 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 132

Trusted

#3359727 2-Apr-2025 14:52

nitro:

i had Ubuntu at home before, but there was always something i needed to be in Windows for. i imagine it's the same for the vast majority of personal/home users. i've never heard a Win user say, "I need to switch to Linux for this"

While the average Windows user indeed might not say "I need to switch to Linux for this", the vast majority of home user's needs would be met by Linux just fine. After all, most people just use their PC to browse Facebook, do banking, emails, maybe some light document editing and printing/scanning etc. Most average home users shouldn't need Windows in general.

It's the ones who've got some specific needs for proprietary software like Adobe or AutoCAD, or the ones who've got advanced VBA macros or AutoHotkey scripts, or the ones who play certain games with malware-like kernel anticheat etc. I don't think these people are the vast majority of home users.

richms

29104 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 10222

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3359729 2-Apr-2025 14:55

d3Xt3r:

While the average Windows user indeed might not say "I need to switch to Linux for this", the vast majority of home user's needs would be met by Linux just fine. After all, most people just use their PC to browse Facebook, do banking, emails, maybe some light document editing and printing/scanning etc. Most average home users shouldn't need Windows in general.

It's the ones who've got some specific needs for proprietary software like Adobe or AutoCAD, or the ones who've got advanced VBA macros or AutoHotkey scripts, or the ones who play certain games with malware-like kernel anticheat etc. I don't think these people are the vast majority of home users.

In which case perhaps they should be looking at chrome OS flex instead of linux with hassles.

Really this is something that google should be exploiting to get more installs done, but I guess they are planning on discontinuing it soon instead.

Richard rich.ms

d3Xt3r

697 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 132

Trusted

#3359780 2-Apr-2025 15:07

richms:

In which case perhaps they should be looking at chrome OS flex instead of linux with hassles.

Really this is something that google should be exploiting to get more installs done, but I guess they are planning on discontinuing it soon instead.

Yes, ChromeOS would've been ideal, but like you said, Google might discontinue it at any time. And even if it doesn't happen, ChromeOS Flex itself has a limited support period.

My mums old Dell Optiplex desktop for instance reaches EoL this year - but it's still a perfectly capable machine for her needs, and I see no reason to chuck it out. She uses Linux without any "hassles", and the machine will likely get updates well into the foreseeable future, probably well past its practical usable lifetime.

The only hassle with Linux, for the average home user like my mum, is with installing it (assuming you're using a sensible distro). But you'd have the same hassle with ChromeOS Flex as well. Installing operating systems in general isn't something the average home user does.

robjg63

4161 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1427

Subscriber

#3359797 2-Apr-2025 16:22

..and as always the commentary on which Linux distribution is best and why kicks in.

I worked with Unix/Linux through the 80s to the early 2000's, but the problem with Linux for home use is... There is not a linux.

If there had only ever been one linux developed as a serious rival for Windows, with one look and feel, one package manager - it could have taken over.

Certainly agree with the comment above, that for most average users, linux would work fine. Web browsing, youtube, social media, internet banking etc is probably 99% of home users.

But there is still that fragmented feel with linux that always seems to make life a little too difficult.

For old hardware and basic usage, Chrome OS Flex seems to work surprisingly well - but as mentioned above - will Google just pull the plug without warning?

Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler

1 | 2 | 3