Should New Zealand invest in nuclear power plants?

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Awrrr
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#3229043 11-May-2024 15:22

Handle9:

The effect is Germany has damaged the envornment, are failing to meet their climate targets, made their electricity incredibly expensive and still use nuclear generated power because they have to buy it from France. They are also chronically under reporting the emisions of their coal (some estimates are 84x). It's a mess.

If you are going to make assertions like that, you need to substantiate them. I can give you citations that state precisely the opposite.

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Dingbatt

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#3229050 11-May-2024 15:39

Yes please.

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gzt

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#3229052 11-May-2024 15:40

Freitasm: We have been warned of possible power disruptions due to low generation and high demand in the last couple of days.

The warning was related to anticipated peak demand between 7:00am and 9:00am Friday. Effectively one warning covering a period of two hours.

networkn

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#3229053 11-May-2024 15:41

tweake:

why do we need more power? https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/cold-houses-to-blame-for-people-needing-to-blast-the-heater-green-building-council/P2H2B7ETNZBFFHSMMYW5KE46AU/

Green building advocates say winter power cuts wouldn’t be an issue if New Zealand’s housing building standards were not decades behind most other countries in the OECD.

“Research from Otago University shows if we built to best-practice standards, as the majority of the OECD already are, we could reduce the winter peak by 75 per cent. That’s huge, and not only takes pressure off the grid, but would be a massive win for New Zealanders’ health and cost of living.”

ROFL. We can't change what has happened till this point. Governments are elected by the people. Very few people want higher taxes (and no, that is not limited to just 'Evil Capitalist National supporters'), and higher taxes produce more money for better standards and policing of those standards. I maintain we wouldn't need higher taxes right now if money had been spent smarter, most recently in the last 6 years, (but absolutely across all Governments for the last 30 years. I strongly disagree with tax cuts right now though).

What we must do, is deal with what we have right now. Right now, our power infrastructure will not cope with much increase in demand.

I agree, that a small amount of risk is acceptable, but with increased demand, that risk becomes more than just a risk, it becomes a reality. Also, for some people, a powercut is an inconvenience, but for many, it's potentially life-threatening.

I would support a Government initiative to properly investigate if Nuclear Power is actually a possibility. The reckons of a few people on a technical forum don't cut it in either direction.

Rikkitic

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#3229054 11-May-2024 15:41

Look them up yourself. There are plenty.

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gzt

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#3229055 11-May-2024 15:42

Solar Zero significantly mitigated some of this risk by making available decentralised battery capacity owned and leased by their customers. There are significant technical challenges in doing that. Apart from an earlier practice run this is the first time it's been done and now proven at least in NZ. I think that's really something.

Tinkerisk

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#3229057 11-May-2024 15:44

Handle9:

Rikkitic:

When an entire country like Germany decides to abandon nuclear power, I imagine they have a good reason and am certainly happy to add my vote to that.

The reason is politics.

The effect is Germany has damaged the envornment, are failing to meet their climate targets, made their electricity incredibly expensive and still use nuclear generated power because they have to buy it from France. They are also chronically under reporting the emisions of their coal (some estimates are 84x). It's a mess.

Politics was the reason for an accelerated shutdown after Fukushima, not to do it in general. Yes, we are still importing nuclear power, but that's the way it is with quick decisions, it takes time to reach the goal. That's why there's no need to assume duplicity.

Incidentally, the use of nuclear power has not only been abolished in Germany, but also in Ireland, Denmark, Austria and Italy. Sweden is no longer building new power plants and Switzerland, Belgium, Spain and Taiwan are still in the process of phasing out.

Sure, you can have this discussion in a highly earthquake-prone area, but I don't think the laws of nature will make any serious consideration of the use of nuclear energy a reality, no matter how sophisticated a hoax by politicians and business bosses, will it? The cost of the insurance policy would also be quite interesting. The nuclear power plant or plants that you would need for this would certainly be more expensive than you would be led to believe. I mean, we're talking about 2.7 times the population of our (only) city.

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networkn

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#3229059 11-May-2024 15:48

Rikkitic:

Look them up yourself. There are plenty.

Unsure if you are replying to me but...

Someone has done a study in the last 10 years of the practicality of NZ implementing one of the new smaller nuclear generators taking into account the changes geologically in NZ recently?

Handle9

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#3229061 11-May-2024 15:49

Rikkitic:

Handle9:

The effect is Germany has damaged the envornment, are failing to meet their climate targets, made their electricity incredibly expensive and still use nuclear generated power because they have to buy it from France. They are also chronically under reporting the emisions of their coal (some estimates are 84x). It's a mess.

If you are going to make assertions like that, you need to substantiate them. I can give you citations that state precisely the opposite.

You can have your own opinions but you can't have your own facts. If Germany had shut down it's coal electricity stations instead of nuclear stations it wouldn't be in the pickle it's been in the last few years and it's emissions would be significantly reduced.

https://www.climatechangenews.com/2023/08/22/germany-climate-plan-net-zero-emissions-fail/

https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/electricity-price

https://www.energymonitor.ai/news/daily-chart-germany-massively-underestimates-its-coal-mining-emissions/?cf-view

As a fun diversion have a look at Gerhard Schröders employers since he's left office. He definitely didn't personally benefit from his governments decision to stop nuclear power /s.

tweake

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#3229062 11-May-2024 15:49

mattwnz:

Also many houses in NZ have trees surround the house for natural shading of house. But they can really affect the amount of power you get out of your solar panels, even if you just get a tiny bit of shading. EVVBlog has done videos on his experiences https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbxHoQF4ADk

yeah thats something that annoys me. branches break off and land on the house, roots grow into pipe work or even foundations. the tree provides no shade untill its big enough, then it grows to big and shade to much. its uncontrolled which is the opposite of what you want. its 1960's hippe ideals that are still portrayed on social media as being good. its not hard to put a fixed shade on to the house to block only summer sun.

a house down the road has a big solar install, and its fully shaded by the neighbors trees, so it gets stuff all sun. complete waste of money.

Handle9

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#3229063 11-May-2024 15:50

Rikkitic:

Look them up yourself. There are plenty.

One rule for me and another for thee. Good oh.

Rikkitic

Awrrr
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#3229064 11-May-2024 15:51

networkn:

Unsure if you are replying to me but...

Sorry, no. Someone else slipped in between.

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Rikkitic

Awrrr
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#3229065 11-May-2024 15:52

Handle9:

One rule for me and another for thee. Good oh.

Sorry, wasn't responding to you.

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tweake

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#3229066 11-May-2024 15:54

networkn:

tweake:

why do we need more power? https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/cold-houses-to-blame-for-people-needing-to-blast-the-heater-green-building-council/P2H2B7ETNZBFFHSMMYW5KE46AU/

Green building advocates say winter power cuts wouldn’t be an issue if New Zealand’s housing building standards were not decades behind most other countries in the OECD.

“Research from Otago University shows if we built to best-practice standards, as the majority of the OECD already are, we could reduce the winter peak by 75 per cent. That’s huge, and not only takes pressure off the grid, but would be a massive win for New Zealanders’ health and cost of living.”

ROFL. We can't change what has happened till this point.

in this context, that's incorrect. we certainly can change what's happened in the past (tho there is practical limits). hence the term retrofit. many countries do this already and have govt programs for this.

2ndly we don't have to keep doing the thing thats not working. there is already more generation in the pipeline. but that doesn't mean we can't reduce the load as well.

Dingbatt

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#3229070 11-May-2024 16:03

Rikkitic:

networkn:

Unsure if you are replying to me but...

Sorry, no. Someone else slipped in between.

So I assume the reply was for me.

In her post, Rikkitic states “I can give you citations that state precisely the opposite.”

When asked to.

”Look them up yourself. There are plenty”

What should use for a search term? Maybe “Patently false assertions about Germany's energy status.”?

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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